Armalite and Cav Arms

AR/M4 AR General Discussion
1

I’m looking into getting my first AR here soon…and have been soaking up every bit of info I can find about them. Already read Sweeney’s AR15 volumes 1+2 cover to cover, and spent a significant amount of time lurking around the various forums. I do have a fair bit of “hands on time” with the guns, as I take care of our FA M4 at our range, and help shooters with their guns all the time…I just haven’t put a lot of rounds through them yet.

I haven’t been able to find out much info on either of these two manufactures. I saw Armalite on “the Chart”, and spoke with Cav Arms about what they do and do not have on them.

My intention is to purchase a gun that I can run through a class without worries…and will most likely be for range use after that. Maybe 3 gun matches if I can find some close by.

I’ve read nothing by good things about Cav Arms over at gotx.com…(moderated by Cav Arms staff…:rolleyes:), but I wanted to know what YOU ALL thought about their uppers and their reliability. I hear they stand behind their gear, which means a lot to me…but I don’t want a Taurus (lifetime warranty, but junk guns). I’d really like to hear from folks over here, where they don’t control the boards.

I haven’t been able to find much of a track record on the Armalite guns, either.

I’m intending to get a 16" w/ removable muzzle device (probably a comp), mid length gas system, fixed front sight, flat top upper, chrome lined barrel, and the rest is up for debate. I have access to the tools to put one together if the saving would justify the headache.

For the price I can get a complete Cav Arms for (16" middy 1:9 Sabre bbl, chrome lined)…even if the bolt goes (not shot peened, not MPI’ed) in the first few thousand rounds (which should be less likely in the mid length setup)

  1. I bet they’d take care of it…
  2. If not, even replacing the whole BCG with one from BCM…it’d still be a cheaper than a S&W, Sabre, Armalite, etc.

Yeager posted that he had a Cav Arms bolt last 50k rounds…that ain’t bad for a rental gun that gets treated like a borrowed mule.

Later on, I’ll probably end up getting a dedicated target upper and lower…but for now, I just want a gun I can shoot, learn on, and trust. If something doesn’t come staked picture perfect, it wouldn’t be the deal breaker for me.

Any feedback anyone can offer on either company would be most helpful…and if someone has some alternative suggestions for me, I’m all ears.

Thanks guys!

2

Stay on the left side of the chart and you will be happy.

3

I’d be happy having a Mercedes, too! What I’m trying to find out, is if the Nissan will do what I need, though.

4

Im confused as to what you want to find out.

5

color me similarly confused.:confused:

6

I’m just trying to figure out what the overall build quality is on these guns.

Do they typically need a lot of attention to get them running 100%?
Have they had problems with parts being out of spec?
Am I better of building a gun for a few dollars less?

For example, the Cav Arms guns don’t come with a Chrome lined carrier (edit: yes they do), the bolt isn’t MPI’ed or shot peened…have other folks run these guns/ parts and really not had an issue with them? Or do these steps really contribute to the reliability of the gun?

For the price, though, if the BCG took a dump after 3k round or so…and I had to buy a new one out of pocket…the overall cost of the rifle and the replacement BCG would still be less than a S&W or Sabre, for example. As I understand it, these are the only parts that some folks would find “questionable” in the gun.

So I guess my question is, why shouldn’t I purchase one of these guns?

Thanks!

7

You’re not going to get a non-chrome lined carrier from CAV. I’ve never heard of a non chrome lined carrier at all… Maybe Olympic Arms might try to pass some shit like that.

Last time I was in their shop they had SDI barreled uppers. I’m not sure if that’s what they’re using on their complete rifles though.

8

I’m sorry, your right! I took some notes when I called Cav and wrote something down wrong. They ARE chrome lined. I’ve seen one or two that weren’t before, too. They were in guns I cleaned for customers…don’t remember the makes.

Cav uses Sabre bbl’s in all of their guns…and as I understand it, the complete uppers they sell separate from their guns are 100% Sabre. The parts they use in THEIR rifles, I’m not sure of…though the barrels, I’m told, are Sabre.

9

I poked around Cav Arms’ site and didn’t see a price for those complete uppers; what did you find out? An alternative is to get a 1:7 twist Sabre upper from PK.

10

You’ll need to call them directly to get a price, but they do have them…I believe they are 1:9. The price I was quoted didn’t seem like any great deal…but maybe that’s what Sabre uppers go for.

11

Same here. I forget the exact amount. But they told me that Sabre had just sent them a price increase, and the price I was quoted wasn’t thrilling. :wink:

12

I am not qualified to say which is your better option, but I will offer this advice that I learned from my hobby with sports cars.

If you can’t afford to do it right the first time, can you afford to repair it when it breaks or do it over again when it dissapoints you?

From the direction of your posts, it seems like you want a good rifle at the least possible cost. Just dont confuse cheap for thrifty and take the advice of others here who have been there, done that.

Maybe call someone who teaches the class you plan on attending. I am sure they have an idea of who/what works and doesn’t.

13

Thanks for your thoughts, regardless!
From what I understand…aside from parts getting staked at the factory, most people are very picky about their bolts, barrels, and buffers.

A replacement bolt which is shot peened, MPI’ed, and comes with boosted extractor tension can be sent to my door for $65.

Barrels? Made (assembled?) by Sabre…what’s to not like here?

Buffer…it’s a mid length rifle, so as I understand it…running the H buffer isn’t as crucial as it is with the carbine length gas systems…regardless, cheap fix.

That leaves staking and shit…which I know where for, and have the tools to do. Anything else that might pop up would be a manufacturer’s error, and you can see that with any brand. This is also something that I have faith in most companies resolving promptly.

Just looking at this, it’d cost less than $100 to put the parts in this rifle that everyone wants. This is substantially below the savings one would get in buying a Cav Arms gun over a similarly featured Saber, or S&W.

From the direction of your posts, it seems like you want a good rifle at the least possible cost. Just dont confuse cheap for thrifty and take the advice of others here who have been there, done that.

Maybe call someone who teaches the class you plan on attending. I am sure they have an idea of who/what works and doesn’t.

You make a very good point. I would probably do a course with Tactical Response…and they rent the Cav Arms guns and say nothing but great things about them.

Not to take anything away from either company, but I think it’s only prudent to consider that these two companies have a little business agreement going, and it’s in their best financial interest to promote each other…hence my asking those not affiliated with either company about what they think of the guns.

I made a previous analogy about cars…how about another one with 1911’s? Those that are super passionate about them and have the $, will get a $3k Wilson/ Nighthawk/ Ed Brown/ Les Baer and rightfully tell everyone that they’re amazing 1911’s second to none.

However, the $800 Kimber Custom II, or SA Loaded models might do everything the buyer is looking for, and run just as reliably…so would that buyer be poorly served by buying the SA/ Kimber? I would say no.

Thanks again guys.

14

Yup the Oly’s are not chromed.

15

At the last GS here in Phx I stopped by the CAV booth as they normally have some Hot Chickie Babies working the booth. They were selling the Sabre LW with the 14.5barrel with perm long A2hider and their(Sabre marked) poly lower for 699.00. I alsmost picked one up. It didnt have any of the Sabre markings that are on their newer stuff. Both Cav and Sabre have told me that Sabre is putting them together and that they are Sabre parts.

16

That’s what I thought too.

When I called and got their pricing though…the price gap between their complete rifles and their “Sabre complete uppers” was so small that I thought there was no way they were putting those same uppers on their complete rifles.

I’ve all but talked myself into one…I’m just waiting to see if someone chimes in with a “no wait! i had XYZ happen with mine! Stay away”