Are the 105’s now being replaced or gradually replaced in favor of the 155mm platform? Speaking mostly about the U.S. military.
Marines were all 155 in 2001 when I went in. They had been for some time. 105’s were used only for Parades and football games. All the Army self propelled stuff is 155.
I believe they may still be using 105 in Airborne Units,
This has been the case for decades, 105’s are pretty much only for Airborne and Air Assault and maybe 10th Mountain.
The guard artillery battalion that I was apart of for a while had two batteries of 105s and one of 155s, all towed. The other battalion in the state has Paladins.
Watching the action in Ukraine, it seems like towed artillery or anything that can’t pick up and move quickly is obsolete and nearly suicidal in combat against a near-peer army. Are there any exceptions to that? How fast can a towed piece go from a precise firing position to transport?
It was damn near 20 years ago now but it seemed to me only a couple minutes or so for the 198’s we had. I was a weather observer but we could have our nets down and shit stowed in about two minutes. We all practiced a lot because we would have to move quick. It was a contest and you did not want to be last.
I don’t know what kind of crew drills arty dudes do, but its easily possible for mortar teams to shoot and scoot faster than counter battery can get rounds on them. I’d think that a skilled towed arty team could do it just as fast if they play their cards right.
That’s what I was initially thinking: the self-propelled pieces can certainly do it quick, but they don’t move fast ground speed-wise. Thinking more about it I guess a self-propelled piece could “shoot and scoot” pretty quick, especially if they don’t use aiming stakes (do they?). I am assuming they have uber-modern fire control systems that don’t require aiming posts and therefore can pull into a firing position, do their computer wizardry, fire, and GTFO of Dodge. A ground mounted unit could probably unass the AO fairly quick but against a near-peer and counter-battery fire? I dunno.
So any Red Leg guys in here? Does modern self-propelled artillery need to be laid in traditionally with aiming stakes and the like or is it all gee-whiz-bang computer stuff?
1168: yeah back in the day us Chucks trained to shoot and get the hell out quickly due to counter-battery coming back at ya. Of course in the ancient days we didn’t have computerized anything so it was lay in with stakes, let 'er rip, and GTFO. I guess we could have done a direct-lay type of mission but that is hit or miss (literally). Mortars are the Infantry’s on-call organic “artillery” so like the 11B’s you have to be mobile. Of course we weren’t humping or driving 155’s!
A number of years ago I was observing for our 155s, a couple of the 105s came and set up at the same firing point and started shooting. Soon after the grass in front of two of the 155s caught fire from the muzzle blasts (low angle fire) because of the conditions, the fire spread very quickly. The gun bunnies were able to throw all the rounds and powder bags into the back of a 5 ton and took off, leaving the 155s. The 105s were able to get hooked up and hauled away before the fire got to them. I watched the whole thing from a hill top about 2 clicks away. Thankfully there were no major injuries and the 155s had only minor damage.
In a war like Ukraine with well established roads I would want to be in one of the wheeled howitzers with an autoloader. Those are the quickest to shoot and scoot with SP’s second, there is not a single confirmed kill of a HIMAR and they are shooting off rockets with big smoke trails but they can displace very quickly. Something like Archer can also, a couple of minutes to pull in, fire and pull out.
I used to service a lot of 105 mortars on Stryker Vehicles.
Great fire control system and they shoot and scoot .
Those were probably 120mm mortars. They replaced the old Four-Deuce (4.2" or 107mm) many years ago.
Yeah, 120, you’re right.
Balancing the nitogen rec oil system seemed to be the only downside for me.
Here is the future of 120 mm mortars.
Great System, looks very competative, but I have to ask, having maintained autoloaders and mortars, how difficult is it going to be to keep everything in syncronization?
One of the most difficult things to get Engineers to understand is some mud covered exhausted 19 year old has to be able to fix this on the fly in the field, day or night.
Pretty cool. I always harken back to the common denominator, a grunt (11C) in an environment that wouldn’t be very permissive of armored vehicles (Afghanistan, Vietnam). That’s when your traditional ground-mount platforms come into play. Other than the places that geography makes it unworkable, these modern mechanized shoot-and-scoot vehicles are the shiznit.
The US is producing 168,000 155’s per year and there’s only one plant in PA that makes them. Russia is producing 2 million per year.
Also worth noting US production of these artillery shells is dependent on materials that are not all sourced domestically.
US 155 production is up to 28,000 per month or 336,000 per year and is due to increase to 100,000 or 1.2 mil by 2025 and then there is the rest of NATO.
“We’re going to be at 100,000 per month in 2025. We were at 14,000 per month 6 or 8 months ago, we are now at 28,000 a month today,” Bill LaPlante, the Pentagon’s weapons acquisition chief, said at a conference on Friday.
I have no idea, but…
Currently re-reading Red Phoenix, written in the 1980s. They talk about counter battery being pretty quick and based off radar telemetry of artillery shells.
I assume 40 years later its quicker. I would imagine 1-2 shots and move, but again, that’s a SWAG on my part.