AR15 question from a novice

AR/M4 AR General Discussion
1

My good friends son asked me the following question and FOR sure I am a novice on civilian use of the AR15, therefore the question to the pros:

I’m considering purchasing an AR15 rifle and would like your opinion. Gun store highly recommends gun built by Bravo Company USA.

Also looked at Rock River Arms, and 2 piston guns, Rugger SR556 and SIG 556.

All are priced about the same, but parts, service, and accessories appear to be more readily available for non-piston guns.

Was told most piston guns need to be sent back to manufacturer for repair, other 2 can be repaired or modified by in-house gunsmith.

2

Take a look here…

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=60901

Short answer is that yes, the BCM guns are top notch, and I would forego the piston guns, and for sure stay away from a RR if you can get a Bravo, Daniel Defense, LMT, or Colt.

3

Go BCM and don’t look back

4

Its good to see a store recomending a BCM. I would bet that 99% of the stores in my are have no idea who BCM is… Hell, when I tranfered a Noveske Lower the FFL had never heard of them either and said I would be better off with a BM.

As said before, go Bravo Co. and you will have a top notch rifle.

5

A gun store recommending BCM? Fantastic!

The noble efforts of the staff of this website are finally starting to pay off.

6

What are you implying? For the record I have also endorsed Colt, Daniel Defense, Novekse and LMT.

I don’t recommend garbage like BM, DPMS, Oly Arms, etc…

If you are building an AR, BCM is one of the most sensible ways to go.

7

Wow, I’m impressed. Normally they just try to sell whatever crap they have on hand. Which is usually RRA, Double Star, and so on.

The local Army/Navy surplus store where I live tries to convince me everytime I go in there that their RRA carbine is the best there is. Apparently it’s what the SF guys use. :slight_smile:

8

So many pot shots lately, what might the situation be? Is it the now deceased TOS issue?

People here do their best to specify what the best options are in the AR market, who does their best to make the finest product. There are no personal grudges beyond the latter nonsense that I am aware of.

9

I doubt any ill-will toward M4Carbine.Net. Best damn site…

That said, asking which AR to get, or if a BC is a good AR, opens a whole can of worms and opinions. There are actually lots of good AR’s out there- and some bad ones. I’d look thru more threads to find others to avoid, and would, IMO, tend to stick with companies NOT jumping on the bandwagon for selling AR’s (except I love my S&W’s and thats so much a company jumping on the bandwagon!).

That means no Remington, Ruger, etc. Great names, great companies, not their focus.

But I’d do more forum crawling- search works great- and find the bad ones to avoid and then get one that was called out as good.

So what do I suggest, if cost wasn’t prohibitive? We all have to have our recommendation, and mine is LMT. But there are others out there that are easily as good. Ok, almost… and WHY do I recommend LMT? Simply b/c I have dragged them through a 2 day course in insanely fine dust and rocks and shot 700-800 rds total with no cleaning and guess what- they worked. IMO, no rifle is reliable, for ME, til it can “give me 2 days and 700 rds.”

My 1 cent anyway…

10

I have a different take on companies jumping on the bandwagon… The more the merrier.

Think about it… The more companies making AR’s and the more people using them the harder it’s going to be to get a return of the foolish AWB back. (and this coming from a NYer!)

We need more people with them, more people making them, and more people using them for hunting, recreation and defense. We need it to not be a fringe weapon, it needs to be THE weapon system people look to.

Sure there will be ones that are better than the rest but the more of them out there and the more common they are the hard they will be to demonize to the sheeple…

11

Good shop, glad to hear that.

I wouldn’t limit it to BCM, but anything up to that standard is worth a look.
Colt, Noveske, BCM, DanielDefense, LMT, and the Spike’s M4-LE.

That said, to the OP: you’ve been given a very helpful push in the right direction, now it’s time for the two biggest questions:

How much money are you looking to spend?
What do you want to do with it?

Making general assumptions, it’s a good idea to start looking at a BCM Midlength Upper built on a complete lower (BCM Blemish, DanielDefense built by G&R, LMT Factory Complete Lower, or stripped lower (with a DD/LMT/G&R LPK, I’d look at Palmetto State) - all great options).
For the upper, a quality 9" free float rail system (DD OmegaX 9.0, LT 9.0, DD Lite 9.0, TROY/VTAC 9.0) will do everything you need.

Pick up a rear backup sight (TROY Flip-Up; DD Fixed, or MagPul MBUS).
Start reading about lights and optics for it.

12

I would say the efforts of BCM are continuing to pay off. :eek:

13

BCM is really good quality. Lately I have been impressed with the Daniel Defense carbines for around a grand, and it has a rail if your looking for it. I can’t forget to mention the Noveske N4 line, top notch quality at a competitive price. I would go with one of those three I mentioned. I am fairly new to M4Carbine.net, however not to ARs, out of all those you mentioned, BCM is the only one I would even consider. Just my 2 cents.

14

I want to throw this out there as well. None of the Mods or IP/SME personnel are compensated by M4C. We do this because we have a passion for AR’s and especially ones that work.

There is an ass load of knowledge between us (kind of like a large AR Borg if you will) and it’s our intent to share that knowledge and help people make informed choices. Whether it be an AR, optics, accesories, etc…

We also ask that our members do the same. We have a huge cross section of members here. Public servce, business owners, military, LEO, doctors, lawyers, bakers and candlestick makers.

What we are really trying to do is save people from making a bad choice. Yes, I have a BCM ( I built it, it wasn’t complete) I also have a Noveske, LMT-piston hybrid and another build with parts from various manufacturers.

In the past I have recommended severel different AR’s .The common denominator is that they are all known for making good stuff.

For anyone to imply that there is some BCM favoritism going on it’s rather absurd. I recommend BCM most of the time because people are trying to build an AR and not just buy off the shelf. In that regard they are probably the best deal around.

If you want an off the shelf SHTF weapon then buy a Colt, DD, LMT or Noveske. They are all well proven and made to a standard. If you can’t afford one then save up until you can or buy the one that can best meet your needs and still be close to a standard and then change out the small stuff down the road.

Do you your homework and be objective. Remember at the end of the day no matter what anyone here says you are the one ultimately making the purchase and you will be the one that has to deal with what you end up with. Is saving 100.00 or 200.00 dollars worth the price that you may have to pay when your weapon fails?

If it is then go to the local dealer and buy what they recommend which 95% of the time is crap.

15

Your other relevant information aside, it would seem that M4C is rather fortunate in this regard. Any fringe benefits, perhaps? Just JW777’s brain alone is worth millions. :smiley:

I ask not to offend anyone, and I really don’t need to know. Just a compliment to you and most others on the superb work that they do here on behalf of everyone whatever the working arrangement is.

It certainly has value, that’s for sure.

16

IMO, in the realm of complete rifles you should look ONLY at:

Bravo Company Machine
Colt
Daniel Defense
LMT
Noveske

RRA and Ruger are economy hobbyist plinker guns, not serious rifles. The irony is that you can get several of the top notch serious guns for less than the RRA or Ruger.

As for piston guns, FORGET IT. If you want a piston gun (AK-47, M14, SCAR, etc.), get one properly designed from the ground up, not a conversion-type design. When automobiles were invented, did people disconnect the horse from their horse and buggy and install an engine?

17

Ok, that point was made in the American Rifleman’s review last year about the Remington, or the Ruger, not sure- but it…

IS A VERY VALID POINT. :smiley:

As a big fan of the AR (even though I keep lookin for a replacement) the more the merrier for darn sure!

That said, I think the market ferrets it out to price. There are great guns for $850- that can’t and don’t compare to a $1700 setup. But is that a shock? Shouldn’t be. Get the best you can afford- and if you need to wait a bit to save enough to get what you really want, then do that. There are, IMO, decent reliable rifles at most price points.

One thing I see people on a budget mess up is toys. You know what? My first AR was an Eagle Arms Carbine. Pre-Ban, nothing fancy. Paid $800 for it. Still have it. It has no rails, no fancy flip ups, won’t fit PMAGs loosely, and that darn ugly A2 handle is permanent. Guess what? Its SUPER reliable, eats everything bu Winchester 3131, and I will NEVER get rid of it or do anything other than add a D-Fender. Toys (mostly all functional) like fancy optics, rails, etc. just add to the cost and the weight, IMO. At 100m, a standard no toys iron sights rifle and some range time delivers.

Again, opinions galore.

18

The owner of a local store asked me, “What do you think of Rock River quality?”

I said, “Not so great. Maybe you should consider stocking X, Y and Z.”

He said, “But Rock Rivers sell well.”

I said, “Selling well and being made well are two different things.”

19

I think an unknowing (uneducated) guy buying a gun is impossible to figure out. I have seen them ask for advice from knowledgeable people, watch them make an obviously stupid choice, watch them prove it was a stupid choice to themselves, and then see them vehemently defend their gun-happens here all the time.

Many times on this Forum, I have seen OP after OP humbly ask for advice and the experienced people of this Forum give them good sound advice; and then after three days of questioning, the OP posts, “I just got home with my new RRA (or BM or DPMS or Olympic or DS) and it is great! Seems to be as good as a Colt for a lot less money!”

I think some guys just don’t know how to walk away from an ignorant overbearing sales guy. Guess they are intimidated, feel obligated, or feel they are trying to “financially” prove their manhood?

So, in this Thread, (if you can read and want to know) RRA, BM, DPMS, Oly, DS,…are considered poor gun choices while BCM, Colt, LMT, DD, Noveske,…are considered superior choices. But don’t take my word for it - read throughout this Forum and make a consensus from the opinions of multiple contributors with high post counts!

But even after repeatedly reading this info throughout this thread (and Forum), some guy is thinking to himself, “That’s BS, I’ve had my RRA (or BM or DPMS or Oly or DS) for 5 years and have never had a problem and I’ve shot it a LOT.” When in actuality, they bought 10-boxes of ammo with their gun (because they were preparing for Armageddon) and they STILL have 4-boxes left!! Well… I guess that is “a lot” compared to their Remington 742 that has maybe 60-rounds shot through it in 10-years??

But…maybe it’s just me…? Oh well…

PS – Just for the novices the acronyms stand for the following: BCM=Bravo Compay Mfg.; LMT=Lewis Machine & Tool; DD=Daniel Defense; RRA=Rock River Arms; BM=Bushmaster; DPMS (some stupid name); Oly=Olympic; DS=Double Star

.

20

That’s exactly my point! I thought one of the points of this forum was to educate consumers about the best products on the market, and this is proof that the staff are succeeding. This is praise, not sarcasm!

I don’t disagree. I meant nothing other than what I said, which was nothing negative.

A good point, as well!