AR15 objective trigger comparisons

AR/M4 AR General Discussion
1

I’ve posted this previously over on calguns- thought I’d post a copy over here :slight_smile:

-Dave

Baseline:
Stock AR15 trigger (probably DMPS)
Single Stage
Unmodified
Easy install (drop-in)
Measured pull weight 7lbs 11oz
Trigger reset -3mm (4mm to full forward position- it is a stiff reset, so it tends to pop to 4mm)
Trigger release from full forward position ~3mm (but it pops to 4mm with overtravel)
1mm overtravel after release
Gritty feel- smoothened some with use


--------------------------------------------------2014--------------------------------------------------------

Geissele Hi-Speed DMR
Two Stage
Unmodified
Medium install (drop-in, but requires tuning, and I had to widen the safety slot for the rear of the trigger)
Measured pull weight 3lbs 8oz
1st stage take up: 3lbs
2nd stage break: 8oz (can be adjusted +/-)
Trigger reset -2mm (2.5mm to full forward position- it is a stiffer reset, so it tends to pop to 2.5mm)
Trigger release from full forward position ~2.5mm
1st stage take up: 1.5mm
2nd stage release: 1mm
.25mm overtravel after release (can be adjusted to nothing if you desire)
Glass smooth
DMR springs can be replaced with service rifle (heavier 1st stage ~4lbs) or match (slightly lighter 1st stage (~2.5lbs), lighter adjustable break).


**UPDATE- I have stoned down the bottom of the hammer slightly- the back-up sear was dragging if the overtravel was adjusted too aggressively. With my slight mod, I can set overtravel at ZERO, or very slight ( >.1mm) which is just right for my AR10. Trigger reset is also very slightly reduced thank to less overall travel. If you wish to do this mod, VERY little material has to be removed from the backup sear notch through the bottom of the hammer. Work slow, and test until the hammer does not drag anymore with the overtravel set to your desired preference.

JP Enterprises match trigger set- JP trigger plus JP speed hammer
Single Stage
Unmodified
Medium install (drop-in, two adjustments) ***
Measured pull weight 4lbs (Tactical hammer spring- will be lighter with the match spring)
Trigger reset -1mm
Trigger release from full forward position ~1mm
ZERO overtravel after release (adjustable)
Crisp break
This is the shortest reset and break of any trigger tested (aside from the AR Gold which had a weak reset), and the lock time is impressive with the light hammer. You will quickly see why this is a 3-Gun favorite- the split times between shots will definitely drop. The reset is also nice and positive for quick repeat shots.
*** the rear of the trigger must be fitted to your safety, otherwise the safety will not work.

Jard Adjustable trigger standard AR (2lb)
Single Stage
Unmodified
Takes more work to install and tune. Tapping through grip screw hole req’d.
Measured pull weight 2.0 lbs
Trigger reset ~1.2mm
Trigger release from full forward position ~1.2mm
Virtually no overtravel- tuned a bit more aggressive than manual spec. VERY fast reset


Hiperfire hipertouch 24C
Single Stage
Unmodified
Easy install (drop-in, couple extra parts)
Measured pull weight 2.0 lbs
Trigger reset -2.5mm
Trigger release from full forward position ~2.25mm
slight overtravel after release (adjustable)
Crisp break

The trigger feels lighter than it measures, and the lock time is definitely the quickest of the bunch. It also smacks the primer HARD with the heaviest springs (lightest pull). It works like a compound bow in the sense that when the hammer is back, the twin springs cam over and are essentially fighting the standard spring, making the force on the sear surfaces less. You can feel this when hand cocking the hammer- it feels a bit odd! Reset and travel are a bit on the longer side, but I think it will be an easy trigger to shoot well.


2

Rock River Arms 2-stage National Match Trigger (new version)
Two Stage
Unmodified
Drop-in install.
Measured pull weight
1st stage take up: 1lb 10oz
2nd stage break: 3lbs (TOTAL weight 4lb 10oz)
Trigger reset ~2.6mm
1st stage take up: 3mm
2nd stage release: 1.7mm
Slight overtravel


Tac-con 3MR 3 mode trigger (late model)
Single Stage
Unmodified
Easy install (drop-in self contained block, must swap safety)
Measured pull weight 4.0 lbs

1st Position (F)
Trigger reset 2.5mm
Trigger release from full forward position ~2.75mm
slight (perceptible but tolerable) overtravel after release
break similar to Geissele SD3G but not as smooth

2nd Position (A)
Trigger reset 1mm
Trigger release from full forward position 2mm
Trigger release from ‘bumped’ position 1mm (trigger is bumped forwards when the bolt carrier pushes down on the hammer)
slight overtravel after release
break seems crisper in the 3rd mode


Special thanks to an un-named member for letting me test his 3MR :smiley:

CMC (Chip McCormick) 2-Stage trigger (flat)
Two Stage
Unmodified
Drop-in install.
Measured pull weight
1st stage take up: 2lb 0oz
2nd stage break: 10oz (TOTAL weight 2lb 10oz)
Trigger reset ~2mm
1st stage take up: 4mm (long)
2nd stage release: 2mm
Noticeable overtravel

CMC (Chip McCormick) Single Stage trigger (flat 3lb)
Single Stage
Unmodified
Drop-in install.
Measured pull weight: 3lb 14oz
Trigger reset ~2.5mm
Trigger release: 2.5mm
Some overtravel

Of all these, my current favorite is still the Wilson TTU 3G for single stage non-adjustable, and now, the Geissele Hi-speed for 2-stage, bumping off the SD-E. The JP adjustable is about as short as you can get- it can be tuned to feel like a 1911 trigger with no take-up- it does require more work, like filing the back of the trigger to fit the safety and tuning the two screws carefully (some guns may require disconnector tuning, mine did not).
The Geisslee Hi-speed as-set has a heavier takeup (DMR springs), but has a light 2nd stage release, and is very very smooth, it feels lighter than it is- and it is nearly infinitely adjustable, though a little fidgety to get where you want. It has a nice solid high-quality feel and low lock-time with the lightweight hammer. With the match spring set it will be even lighter.
The Jard worked well, though it took a lot of work to install and tune (third only to the JP and SR Gold). Be sure to use plenty of loc-tite on the adjustment screws (same holds true for the JP trigger or anything with set screws). This one held adjustment for several years and about 900-1K+ rounds.

The Tac-con was finally tested. A mystery member was cool enough to let me test it out. If you hold the trigger back and drop the bolt, it DOES NOT FIRE. The bump seems to just push your finger forward enough to engage a position where the reset is cut to 1mm. At this point I’m betting I could fire my JP just as quickly, but I suppose it is fun for one who likes gadgets and complications. (Geissele is considering doing a similar trigger- except it will be normal 2 stage and then become a 3-gun trigger in the 3rd position- this I find Verrry interesting).
update I was invited to a shoot and able to test fire this trigger. I could NOT get it to rock like the videos- it shoots just like the JP trigger on 'fast; mode, but with a heavier pull and longer reset. No Bueno. The tac-con was actually sold awhile back as well since my friend did not like it considering how much it costs- he is now running a JP trigger on that rifle with better results (for 1/3 the price).

I also did an essentially free (okay, $0.75) mod for a friend- I tapped the pistol grip screw hole all the way through, inserted a set screw, and polished the hammer/trigger interface on the STOCK junker of a trigger. I tuned take up screw and filed the top rear of the trigger until the safety worked again (take-up screw shoves the back end up at rest position).
To my surprise, it’s not bad at all- not as good as a dedicated unit, but I bet you wouldn’t shoot any worse with it. I didn’t have my test gear handy, but I’d bet it’s about a 5lb pull with an approximately 2.5-3mm reset and release.

11/4-
Added CMC single stage 3lb trigger.
I expected more after hearing about how good the trigger was. Don’t get me wrong, it’s not bad at all, but it doesn’t have the shortest reset or pull of the lot. It does have a good click on reset, and is one of the cheaper triggers of the group. The steel housing feels cheap compared to the aluminum housings in some of the higher end triggers, but it does its job just fine. I DO NOT LIKE the way the CMC triggers retain the pivot pins by upward pressure on the pack. I would run KNS pins instead. But not bad for ~$150

-Dave

If you want your trigger tested, PM me if you’re local. Takes about 5 minutes.

3

Awesome post, thank you for your time and effort. That Tac-Con trigger always seemed like a gimmic to me, especially at that price. That hiperfire trigger looks complicated. Do you think it will hold up over time?

Is this going to be an ongoing process? Will you be reviewing more triggers? I would be willing to send some of mine for testing purposes if so (SSA, SSA-E, ALG ACT, KAC 2 Stage)

4

I’ll add more triggers as I test more- I can test anything sent to me. The testing itself takes a couple mins, probably takes longer to actually swap out the parts :slight_smile:

Most of these were either mine at one time, or on builds I did for friends and family.

The Hiperfire looks complex, but the way it’s set up it’s hard for anything to fall out. The extra hammer springs are under a LOT of pressure, which keeps the rods engaged on the center shaft. I do wish it had some sort of overtravel adjustment, but it’s overall a good trigger for rapid firing. I tried using a set screw through the pistol grip area to cut down on more pre-travel as an experiment, but it won’t reset with the travel cut- I just put it back to stock. It does strike the primers HARD- even military rifle primers and surplus are not an issue at all in .308.

I suppose the shaft the spring rods are engaged on could drag a bit if the lube runs dry, but it’s under a LOT of pressure. It probably wouldn’t make much difference in striking power or feel.

-Dave

5

Very good info, this will be a useful reference on actual stats involving these triggers.

6

I just want to point out that the Geissele HiSpeed reset can be adjusted to some asinine levels: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeTECKJQXDo

7

I’m probably missing it, but did you comment on the trigger you are saying is your favorite? I don’t see it listed.

8

curious also. currently at the top of my list for a new trigger. also one of the the most expensive.

9

Yeah, post up the Wilson info.

I have their TTU M2, two-stage and I like it a lot. It’s my fav out of the bunch I’ve tried.

10

Scroll all the way down on post #2 :slight_smile:

I like the Wilson TTU-3G a lot, it’s probably my favorite single stage trigger. If they made it with a flat blade, it would win hands down, but the tip of the trigger does prod me once in a while. The Geissele SD-3G is a close 2nd for single stage.

For competition/rapid fire, it’s pretty hard to beat the JP enterprises adjustable set- it has the shortest pull and reset of anything I’ve tried to date.

FOr 2-stage accuracy shooting, AR Gold and the Geissele match adjustable are the best. I had to mod my Geissele a bit to allow me to set the overtravel where I wanted it, but it’s a great feeling trigger. The AR Gold has a fantastic break, but the low mass of the trigger makes it feel less durable, and the reset is very very soft. I like a firmer reset I can feel. On my heavy match AR though, the gold trigger feels about as close to a Remington 700 with a good trigger as you’ll get.

-Dave

11

Looks like the first part got cvut off- here it is:

Geissele Super Dynamic 3-Gun
Single Stage
Unmodified
Fairly easy to install
Measured pull weight 2lbs 10oz
Trigger reset 2.5mm
Trigger release from full forward position 3mm
Slight overtravel after release


Wilson Combat TTU 3-Gun trigger
Single Stage
Unmodified
Brainless pure drop-in installation (pre-assembled block)
Measured pull weight 2lbs 15oz
Trigger reset 2mm
Trigger release from full forward position 2mm
Almost no overtravel- trigger resets at full forward position. VERY fast


Jard Adjustable trigger for 308 AR (2lb)
Single Stage
Unmodified
Takes more work to install and tune. Tapping through grip screw hole req’d.
Measured pull weight 2lbs 10oz
Trigger reset 1.5mm
Trigger release from full forward position 1.5mm
Slight overtravel- tuned a bit more aggressive than manual spec. VERY fast reset
.308 version has extra mass on the hammer to help detonate large rifle primers. It may or may not have a stiffer hammer spring too.


Armalite 2-stage National Match (older style)
Two Stage
Friction surfaces polished
Takes some work to tune. stoning to time release/overtravel (by instructions).
Measured pull weight 2lbs 13oz
Trigger reset 1.5mm
Take-up 3mm, 2nd stage release 1mm
Almost no overtravel- trigger does exhibit a little ‘slap’ on cocking (similar to a MAC or AK trigger). Noticeable on bolt manipulation, not so much in actual use.


Geissele SSA HK416 version (extra hammer mass and height)
Two Stage (corrected a typo)
Unmodified
Fairly easy to install
Measured pull weight 3lbs 10.4oz (Take up: 3lbs)
Trigger reset 3mm
Take-up 2.5mm, 2nd stage release 1.5mm


12

Timney Single Stage 3lb Trigger
Single Stage
Unmodified
Very easy to install (drop-in, but you must remove the safety lever)
Measured pull weight 3lbs 10oz
Trigger reset 2mm
Trigger release from full forward position 1.5mm
Slight overtravel after release


LWRC Enhanced Trigger (Mil Spec)
Single Stage
Unmodified
easy to install
Measured pull weight 7lbs 10oz
Trigger reset 2.5mm
Trigger release from full forward position 3mm
Noticeable overtravel after release
This is like any other military trigger, but it is glass smooth


SR Gold Trigger (AR Gold for .308/AR-10)
Two Stage
Fitted/Tuned; Lots of work to tune
Required tuning to work (I have read the AR15 version usually drops in)
Measured pull weight 2.0 lbs (10oz 1st stage)
Trigger reset 0.5mm (very light- too light for my liking)
Trigger release: 2mm take up, .5mm 2nd stage release
ZERO overtravel after release (had to file the trigger tang until it would fire- from the factory it would not drop hammer))

Update 5/2013:
I had two problems with the SR Gold and returned it-

  1. the trigger tended to drop the hammer before the next shot unless I set it at a heavier (grittier) pull with more sear engagement. This happened maybe once every mag- the redundant sear is great unless you’re holding the trigger back, then it does squat. I suspect the disconnector was dropping the hammer, or the vibration of firing was causing a premature trigger pull somehow (but the former is more likely).

  2. The trigger had some side-side flop I did not like. I could live with this if not for point 1.

On a lesser recoiling .223 platform, it may work just fine- but on my .308, it got returned. It’s a bummer, set up just right it mimics my Remington 700 trigger.
I was also not happy with the feel of the reset. It is very light and ambiguous. Not conductive to fast shooting (I read Miculek has a special trigger with a heavier/faster reset)


Update: 12/2013

JP Enterprises Adjustable Trigger
Single Stage
Unmodified (uses stock hammer, or JP lightweight hammer- this one Used a stock Nickel Boron hammer)
Medium effort install (drop-in, but you must adjust it per the manual, and fit the disconnector) ***
Measured pull weight 4lbs 5oz
Trigger reset 1.5mm
Trigger release from full forward position 1.5mm
Very slight overtravel after release
** NOTE ** I am running the ‘tactical’ hammer spring- pull will be lighter with the ‘competition’ spring.
*** the rear of the trigger must be fitted to your safety, otherwise the safety will not work.


Geissele SD-E
Two Stage
Unmodified
Easy install (drop-in)
Measured pull weight
1st Stage 2lbs 9oz
2nd Stage 3lbs 7oz (break)
Trigger reset 3mm (~4.1mm to full forward position)
Trigger release from full forward position
Take up 2.5mm
Second stage break 1.6mm
slight overtravel after release