You are dangerously close to opening a few different cans of worms :D!
The really short answer is that the orange search button and time spent with it will give you more answers than you will want/need.
The slightly longer and more helpful answer is than carbine-length gas systems are 7" long, and mid-length are 9". You gain some space behind your FSB, and an oft-debated reduction in recoil/violence to your gun with the middy.
Not to continue beating a dead horse but, as someone who has been where you are at, I think the best advice is to to get a quality basic model (the PSA rifle or Colt 6920 linked in above posts would be a good start) and shoot a few thousand rounds through it. You can do all the theoretical research you want, but until you get a rifle in your hands and shoot it, you will have no clue what works for you when it comes to modifications. Only after you have actually used the rifle for more then plinking can you start to know what you want to upgrade.
That is my .02 but I think it will save you money in the long run on stuff that you didn’t really need in the first place.
I appreciate the advice, but how is that going to help me understand barrel length, hand guards and various parts I am simply asking questions about? I have shot a rifle before so I am not completely new to the concept.
There is a lot of good advice and information in these many posts, for those who contributed Thanks.
Im tired… feeling grumpy.
The difference between a carbine length and mid-length (or middy) gas system is in the distance from the chamber end of the barrel to the gas port. At what point the distance is measured from, I am uncertain. As noted earlier, the carbine has a 7 inch gas system and the middy has a 9 inch gas system.
As the bullet travels down the barrel and the gases expand, pressure drops. The pressure used to operate the rifle with a 7 inch gas sytem is higher than with a 9 inch gas system. Each length has it’s strengths and weaknesses. Some feel the longer gas system has a softer recoil.
(Some will tell you the recoil is lessened, but that isn’t true. Using identical ammunition in rifles identical in every way with the exception of gas system tuning- including gas system length- recoil energy will be the same. What will differ is how the recoil feels.)
I have a 16" middy carbine with a stainless steel gov profile barrel and a friend has a 16" Colt M4 with a carbine gas system. Both rifles shoot fine and there isn’t enough difference between the two for us to bother arguing about. I like my rifle better, but that’s because it’s the one I chose
Ok, I have been reading and researching and like the parts/specs of this rifle…http://cmmginc.secure-mall.com/shop/index.php?shop=1&cat=76
I also like the price which is in the low end of my range for a good starter.
I am curious if anybody has one of these or what you have heard about this company, good or bad I would like your feedback.
if the above link does not work I will leave this here…http://cmmginc.secure-mall.com/shop/index.php?shop=1&cat=76
For that price I would consider this BCM. Or wait for Grant to get Colt 6920s back in stock.
What is it about the CMMG specs that you like? Both of the above rifles are empirically better and a touch cheaper.
Just remembered that crazy PSA deal here. For $1000 You get what should be a quality starter rifle and an Aimpoint PRO.
Here’s the thing…CMMG, Bushmaster, DPMS, Rock River Arms, Del-Ton are not known for making quality firearms. There are a variety of corners that they are reputed to cut in their design and in their quality control. That’s fine…for a lot of people who only drill occasional holes, a cheap “imported” drill from Harbor Freight will work just fine. The problem in this case is that those firearms companies’ market penetration is such that people assume they must be better, and end up spending as much or almost as much as they would for a quality firearm from BCM, Daniel Defense, even Colt (which is still the standard by which other rifles are judged).
So…if you’re just looking for a range toy to shoot a few hundred rounds a year, that tier of rifles might work fine for you. If you’re looking for a good, reliable rifle that will last you trouble free for decades, you’d be better off spending a little more and getting a lot more rifle.
ok, that was what I thought and very good advice. I am willing to spend a bit more for something that IS reliable, will be trouble free and will last for many many years.
After considering what folks have said and reading hours of threads, comments and talking to friends with AR’s, I have narrowed down my choices and am heavily leaning towards a Daniel Defense. The hard part now is deciding which particular model to pursue. I think I like the lightweight version(s) the best. I feel this is going to set me up well and meet the criteria I am looking for…
If anyone has one of these or has shot one I would love to hear your feedback. I am to the point I am ready to buy, take a class or two and get shooting! Its almost like Christmas, I can’t wait.
I feel like you’re not quite paying attention. DD will be fine. There has been nothing recommended to you that is not a quality rifle with the possible exception of PSA (and only because they may not have been proven quite yet, specs are good). Also, you need not pay more than 1k for a quality rifle, though you are more than welcome to.
You should pick a DD model you like (light weight), and then use the search function to learn about it. Come on back if you have any unanswered questions. You’re certainly on the right track!
lol, not paying attention? really?! isn’t this a firearm forum? can’t I ask questions, get answers, research, learn? all of which I have been doing. I like many of the brands mentioned by others, you included. How is that not paying attention? I have narrowed it down from research (including doing a “search”), discussion (with you and others) and price.
My last questions were specific towards DD and the models, if people want to respond then great, if not then thats fine too, but don’t throw water on my fire by telling me I am not paying attention when I have learned a lot from you and others.
I just purchased the Daniel Defense m4 v3 yesterday. I have done alot of research and knew that I wanted the mid length gas system. then you need to decide if you want a FSB or just a rail and add your own iron sites. Daniel defense only offers I think 3 rifles with the mid length gas system.
There is a lot of information here about DD carbines. If you look at the DD website, you’ll see that the only options to choose barrel length/type, gas system type, and rail length (and part of that is if you want a standard front sight, or not). The lower receivers are the same, so the models are similar. People aren’t trying to rain on your parade, it is just that these topics have been covered extensively here. It isn’t personal.
Let me suggest getting the DD upper with standard or MOE handguards and an FSB, then shoot it. The experience of shooting will help you decide if the added expense of rails is worth it and the MOE handguards should be easy to sell off. If you decide a low profile gas block is better for your purposes, the FSB can be cut down
I purchased a DDM4 V5 recently and it’s my first AR. I did a bunch of research on this and other forums and in the end, it had the features I wanted and it was in stock locally (so I could both see it in person and it was available right away). Going in, I wanted a quad rail and vertical grip, both of which the DDM4 come with and was in my price range. I actually initially wanted one with a FSB, but now I am happy that I got one with an open top rail as I REALLY like the Troy BUIS with the HK front. I like the way the round front post fits in the round rear sight and also “matches” the look of the EoTech RDS that I have on it.
Could I have gone with something very different? Yes. I wanted the quad rail because I wanted it to be modular since it was my first AR, I didn’t really know what I liked or disliked. I agree with many of the previous posters to get a quality AR and shoot it alot and then you’ll be able to figure out what you like. Just to happens, that the DDM4 is pretty close to what I thought I wanted. That being said, I think I may ditch the VFG for some rail covers with a little more traction than the rail covers that came with the DDM4 and a handstop.
As for use, primarily plinking and I eventually want to get into the local practical combat 2-gun events and eventually a carbine course, for which I will need to travel out-of-state. But primarily, I just wanted something to learn about the AR platform since this was my first rifle. So far I am VERY happy with my purchase of DD and my experience with their customer service. That being said, I probably would be saying the same thing if I bought a BCM, which I almost did. I didn’t because the local shop doesn’t stock them, but could special order them and that very well may be my second AR! Haha.
As for carbine vs middy. I actually kind of stumbled into a middy. I initially wanted a DDM4 V4 (carbine length), but the local shop had the V5 in stock, so that’s what I ended up with. Now that I have the middy, I like the extra rail space that it allows. From what I’ve read, carbine vs. middy debate is one that you’ll have six to one and half dozen to the other. For me, I think it’s personal preference and you can get excellent performance out of either.
I am still a newbie at this, but I did a LOT of research before buying. But like others have said, there are some questions that you have answer for yourself after you get it in your hands. That’s part of the fun of the modular nature of the AR! Feel free to ask me any questions (via PM if you like).
excellent, thanks for the replies, that was what kind of info I was interested in hearing.
I read every thread on them, although most were older. This was how I narrowed it to DD. I was just curious if anybody recently bought one and had feedback which I received. All good stuff and gave me more to chew on.
I know it isn’t personal and I am trying to not take it that way, like I said I am new to this and am having fun learning. I look up to the people who have a ton of knowledge and am simply trying to learn, not annoy. I appreciate and respect the folks who actually have the PATIECE to answer the noobs questions.
This is really great info and the type of stuff I was looking for. I am curious what state are you in that you have to go out of state for the carbine class if you don’t mind me asking? hard for me to believe there is a state worse then my own.
I live in Hawaii. No carbine courses offered out here, at least none that I know of. When I am ready, I’ll be looking for one where they schedule it somewhere on the west coast or as far as Arizona (Magpul?).
Hawaii does have some funky gun laws, like no CCW allowed. Well, technically it’s allowed, but only for specific instances (LE, authorized security companies, etc.). There’s a currently a lawsuit arguing that very point.
I’ve heard that other states, like CA, have much stricter gun laws than Hawaii. We have one outdoor public range per island. There’s a petition or some kind of movement to try to get another one opened up on Oahu, but that is probably many years off at best.
Getting back to your original post, I have found specific reports of on both the DDM4 V4 and V5 recently on a few forums. PM if you would like links to those topics.