I apologize in advance as this has been probably covered ad nauseum.
I’ve done a few searches on “AR AND PISTON” and have found some good information, but it’s still pretty confusing.
Currently I have a Stag that I modified to suit my taste and while I like it, I’ve wanted a higher end AR anyway so I thought I might replace the upper with a piston system or buy a new piston AR altogether and have two.
My first priority is durability/reliability. The whole point of the piston is to increase these qualities, so any piston that is questionable relevant to DI systems is not an option. I have enough basic gunsmithing knowledge to keep one running for a while with available parts, so parts interchangability/availability is my second most important consideration. A trade-off between long-term reliability and parts availability is acceptable. In other words I’d consider a rifle I can fix easily/readily than a rifle that is more reliable, but once broken is unfixable.
In my research I’ve found the following to be “generally” true though some might quibble.
First the 416 seems to be the highest quality option out there (and probably my favorite) though I’m not sure I want to spend $3K once it becomes available. An upper swap might be an option though if it’s as expensive as a comparable rifle then I don’t know if I want to go there either. Given the expense/availability of parts, the trade-off in net reliability would have to be substantial. That being said, if it’s really that good… then that money doesn’t seem so much.
Second there is the LMT MRP(PWS) and LWRC uppers/conversions in terms of serious use. I understand little about the LMT, and while the LWRC has its following, there are reports of problems. This being said it seems to have the most part interchangability. These options also seem quite a bit more reasonable in terms of cost. I’m not sure whether it makes sense to buy a whole rifle or just swap uppers/do a conversion.
Third, I’ve heard a mixed bag relative to the POF uppers though DSA seems to be marketing them at relatively reasonable prices. I know little about the Bushmaster conversion, but it seems to be the least expensive option. The question remains if it’s cost effective. If it qualitatively improves the reliability of my Stag that might make sense too.
Is my understanding of the above flawed? Likewise are there options I’m not considering that I should?
I am looking forward to going to a piston system as well but after looking at all the AR designs I came up with a different game plan. My problem with AR piston systems is that they were not designed as one. I heard and seen pics of accelerated wear. The carrier wasn’t engineered to be ‘hit’ off center, the wear I’ve seen has been from the carrier going into the ext. tube after this off center hit.
My plan is to get an original piston design. I’m waiting to see the release and performance of the Massada/BM ACR and the FN SCAR then there is the standby SIG 556. I will keep my two M4’s and add one of these in time. There are other systems I wish were available (G36, TAR21) but the ACR and SCAR seem to hold a lot of promise. Just my $.02
Actually the thought of whether the AR was designed for a piston was something I considered and why I was shying away at least from the conversions.
Those other rifles had appeal, but I’m not as confident in an ability to scrounge parts for them. One of the things that appealed to me about some of the AR piston systems was that there was 60%+ parts interchangeability with the standard AR.
Any comments from the peanut gallery as to accelerated wear? Anyone in the know?
I’ve only seen it online. Though I don’t know what their intended market is. It looks like a neat design. If they offer it to civilians that might be the good option.
just recently i got some inside info on a new AR piston system about to hit the market, it is in my OPINION, the most advanced system yet, i believe it will put the “416”, POF, LWRC systems in the “acceptable” bracket, i have been promised an upper for testing and evaluating within the next 4-6 weeks…, hang in there and when i get this upper and put a thousand rnds. or so thru it, i’ll write up a report, exclusive to “The Firing Line” forums.
I like the LWRC system a lot. Every LWRC gun I’ve encountered has been a tank, but since it takes them 4-5 months to ship product, I dont have heaps of faith in LWRC as an organization. Something somewhere is busted in their internal people, process, technology or money which leads to horrid order fullfilment times
I look forward to the LMT piston as well. LMT makes good stuff and their management is solid
In the absence of the HK416 I am passing on the piston revolution…for now.
I dont have any interest in POF, or PWS and Ares conversions
Have you taken a look into the Primary Weapon system piston conversion? It is very robust and the price and turn around is good, I would said it is on par with the LWRC and it may surpass it because it is more user friendly with a front draw piston that you do not need to remove the top rail to get to the assembly. this is a lot like the LMT or the POF desing, but unlike the LMT, it is not mate to a ultra expensive MRP and unlike the POF, it is low profile enough that you don’t need to use a rail on rail application to accommendate the piston assembly.
I will get some pictures on line for your viewing enjoyment this evening.
Just curious who will be releasing this new system? Why do you feel it’s superior to all the other systems currently available? Especially when many of them are already proven designs.
Actually, let’s not play “internet rumor” games. If the piston upper in question is ready to come to market, then discuss it – openly. If it’s still a secret, keep it that way.
We’re not going to allow much more latitude for rumors and games.
ive kinda been discounting the ARES/BM and the osprey systems due to the gasblock roll pin issue. A roll pin makes little sense to me as a stress bearing point. And that has been backed up by some reports of roll pin failure.
it would seem that systems that use their own gas block make a lot more sense in terms of design stoutness.
the PWS system costs the same as the ARES/BM and appears to be a more well thought-out design.
For what it’s worth, the HK416’s gasblock is held in place on the barrel by two roll pins. I’ve never heard of it being an issue, but then again, you are describing two completely different systems.
HK doesnt even rate with me when looking at gas systems. they are not yet civvie available (officially) and they cost a billion dollars. couple that with HK’s general attitude toward civvie sales…and like i said, they dont rate.
I’m cautiously curious about the PWS conversion and think it’s a digestible amount of money to plunk down on something that needs proprietary support down the road. Actually, their conversion might be compelling in a VIS upper.