I think this will lead to some interesting discussion, try to stay on topic. In no way is this a thread to slander, bash, insult or denegrate LEOs or private citizens for their actions, except the bad guys. This is a place for us to learn from otherās experiences and what works, what doesnāt and how we can become better prepared to deal with a situation if weāre ever confronted with a similar scenario. http://www.fox16.com/news/local/story/Police-imposters-shoot-woman/qTKAUs79DkOzMbGvTUZfew.cspx?rss=315
Police are looking for three men who posed as police officers and forced their way into a Little Rock home. They came in demanding cash and shot the homeowner, Rachel Woods, in the leg.
āTwo were masked and grabbed her by the hair, the alarm went off and they were going to shoot her in the face,ā says neighbor Julena Keddie.
Just after 10 Monday night, neighbor Julena Keddie rushed to help her neighbor. Woods was in her house with her two children when three men started banging on the door and yelling Little Rock police.
āThese three men were impatient. They kicked this door in, but police say the best thing Rachel did was set her alarm. When it went off, it scared them away.ā
āShe was hysterical. She was just more worried about her kids,ā says Keddie.
Before they ran off, one of them shot Rachel in the leg. Then asked her ''Whereās the money?" She told them she didnāt have any.
āWe had just gone to bed when we heard gunshots. We came outside and heard Rachel yelling, āhelp me, help me Iāve been shot.āā
Two of the men were wearing T-shirts with āPOLICE.ā The third had on a fake badge.
āItās very disturbing when a criminal uses the word police, especially Little Rock police, to commit a crime,ā says Lieutenant Terry Hastings.
When police catch the men, they will be charged with several crimes including aggravated robbery and impersonating a police officer. All three are described as 20 to 30 years old. The men took off in a green SUV. If you have any information you are asked to contact the police.
Itās a sad reality of living in South Africa, but here thereās a good chance that if someone wearing a shirt reading "POLICEā and displaying a Police badge comes into your home and shoots and robs you that they are actually the real Police.
This would be an interesting discussion, as long as it doesnāt get out of hand. Iām curious about this as well. Outside of them having the wrong house, Iām absolutely sure that legitimate, actual LE would have no reason to do a no-knock raid on my house. So I can be 99.999999% sure that someone knocking down my front door and yelling police isnāt the real deal. Would I still hesitate to act? I hope not.
Pseudo cops are a problem down this way as wellā¦no one knocks our real leo because of it. The problem for both civiās and leo is the confusion of āknowingā 100% who is bashing in your door.
I can say 95% of the time (in this area), the bad guys usually prey on other thugs who have dope and or $$$$ in the homeā¦at least that is the perception of the news coverage.
Yup. Itās up to the Police to make sure that (a) They act on information that they at least verify as plausible; (b) They cross-reference the name on the warrant with the name on the residence and that they try to reconcile any differences; and (c) They double-check that the residence they are about to storm is the correct residence in the first place.
IMHO, if ALL the LE Departments were to use proper procedure before executing a no-knock warrant; the chances of these mistakes will be minimized or eliminated.
One of the things I have often thought about is what happens if something like this (no-knock warrant mistakenly executed at my home) were to happen to me? Knowing that I have not committed a crime that would warrant such an action, there is a good chance I would not believe that those executing it were not legitimate LEOs (unless I happen to recognize one or more of them) and would probably defend myself and my home.
And thatās the problem I worry about as well, Carlos, particularly with my dogs. Sadly, with a mistaken plain clothes no-knock warrant, yours odds of either shooting a plain clothes officer or being shot by one and having your dogs killed are extremely high.
Plain clothes no-knock warrants are bad for the most part but it does give our paramilitary cops a chance to play tactical and justify their own existence.
At my agency, we utilize the swat team for search warrants, specifically because we knock and announce and there is no mistaking the shear presence on the street of agency vehicles and personnel. From an officer safety standpoint I feel itās far safer to knock and announce. The potential loss of life from a no knock going bad FAR outweighs any potential loss of evidence. JMHO
This happens quite a bit in Phoenix, but it is usually the Mexicans extorting or kidnapping other Mexicans.
Thatās a a scary thought though, when you donāt know who is coming through the door and almost puts us in the same position as soldiers in Iraq. Namely, is the person I am looking at actually a threat and do I shoot and risk the possibility of prison/death sentence down the road or a death sentence right here, right now if I donāt act?
It wouldnāt be fun, but I would think that I could deal with a few thugs trying to kick in the door. But the popo donāt bring just a couple of guys with them. Fire on the first one through the door and chances are the other 12 wonāt let you walk out of there.
Thereās quite a few cases of wrong house, wrong person with citizens either in jail or dead after botched no-knock raids. I might not be doing anything illegal, but the house next door (or 1234 West something when I live at 1234 East something) might not be so upstanding.
Hereās a hint. If the people kicking in your door are are yelling āwhereās the moneyā, āwheres the drugsā, or similar phrases there is a very good chance they arent the police.
If you look at most of these fake police home invasions, they are targeted toward dope dealers, criminals, and sometimes towards illegals (at least in this area). The people doing them are typically not dressed remotely alike (most officers will appear somewhat the same), are few in number (most agencies I know arent going to hit a house with less than 8-10 officers), make odd demands (see above), etc.
Of the few explosive situations Iāve been in, I could hardly tell you what was said or exactly what happened when it started. My own fear of confusion is that two seconds when the door is kicked in and the first guy is coming through. I havenāt had a home invasion or a warrant executed, but I would think that by the time the demands came out it would be well past instinctual reaction time.
Wonder what would happen if I was mistakenly no-knocked(wrong house) and I killed several officers without being killed myself? Would I go to jail? Not looking for a definite yes/no. Just thoughts.
This guy wasnāt mistakenly raided even though whether or not they shouldāve been there in the first place was questioned. His case basically came down to the belief that they did announce themselves as police so his actions were not justified.
Here is where the bad guys can get a serious psycological advantage. Regular people wont shoot a cop.
Imagine you are at home doing what ever. Its a peaceful day and you are just a regular joe. Your door gets kicked in and you hear āPOLICE!ā A normal person should put their hands up or get on the floor. Imagine for a second that this was not actually the police. Good people suffer home invasions every now and then too. You hesitate because you think it is the police, and by the time you learn otherwise, it is way too late.
I think BGās using the cop bit is crossing a line. Shit like that will end up getting cops killed. I agree with the enhanced sentencing for this way more than for having a gun in offence of another crime.
What if theyāre yelling police? After theyāve got ācontrolā of the situation in their ādynamic entryā it would be too late for you to defend yourself. I believe due to the initial confusion and the oh shit factor that youāve lost your opportunity to defend yourself.
What if the real police donāt announce themselves?I know that there are many cases where the real police have made mistakes on innocent peopleās houses and people have been shot and killed resulting in a tragic loss of life. I also know there are many recorded cases where police imposters have conducted their own āraidsā and people have been seriously injured or killed. How do you distinguish between the 2 as a law abiding citizen in your house?
Most of the regulars on this board are armed the vast majority of the time or have easy access to weapons in their home or wherever theyāre at. Iām sure in a lot of situations where a no knock raid occurs and a mistaken residence is entered there would be a gun fight and the resident would be on the losing end. The problem being is the mindset of the police and the person of the residence when the door frame is splintering. I believe we all have similar mindsets in the fact that weāll defend not only ourselves, our loved ones and in the case of the police their fellow officers.
Again, letās try to keep this civil and no cop bashing. Iām hoping we can make it past one page without this being shut down as there is valuable information that can be learned.
This is a place for us to learn from otherās experiences and what works, what doesnāt and how we can become better prepared to deal with a situation if weāre ever confronted with a similar scenario. http://www.fox16.com/news/local/story/Police-imposters-shoot-woman/qTKAUs79DkOzMbGvTUZfew.cspx?rss=315
