Hello Gents, Yes, I know, & please don’t laugh, I’m serious. I finally decided to break down & purchase a decent quality complete M4 style Upper, but with a ‘pinned & welded’ 14.5" barrel. I was all ready to hit the buy now button on GBC yesterday for a beautiful NIB Colt 6921 upper, until I realized it wasn’t p/w. I had specified that in my search, so when it came up I got excited. But, I can’t see spending the money for a new 6921, only to pay to have it done. So, if anyone happens to have a clue as to where one might be found, please let me know. I always prefer Colt, but I would be more than happy with an BCM product. THANK YOU, & OK, now you can start laughing again !!
I’ve seen some Sig Sauer 516 14.5 pinned uppers recently but they are sold out at Optics Planet so you might need to search to see if anyone has them in stock.
They show up in stock for hours/a day on BCM regularly. Like, probably every week there’s a pinned 14.5" with MCMR13 of some kind available. Open a tab to here and check it daily
I have 2 of the Sig 516 14.5 uppers, they came with the standard A2 flash hider, not pinned, not welded. They are sold with the usual NFA disclaimer that it’s the buyer’s responsibility to ensure compliance yada yada yada.
just fyi.
I think the harder part of OP’s challenge is to find your quality M4 14.5 upper in-stock. The easy part is sending it out to John Thomas or Adco or whoever for the P/W. It’s pandemic days, you gotta make some adjustments to your expectations of the market place.
Faxon used to have a 14.5" upper that came P/W with their skinny flash hider, fully NFA compliant (i.e. about 16.1"), that allowed slipping the gas block off without removing the FH. pre-Wuhan days, of course, sorry to say.
just another FYI, 14.5" barrel + std A2 flash hider does not come out to NFA 16" legal. it’s a little short, maybe ~1/4". that’s why the whole endless discussion about ~1/4" spacers vs BCM A2X slightly-longer flash hider. and the desirability of the harder-to-find 14.7" barrel.
I intentional ordered my 14.5” unpinned so I could choose the MD to be pinned. If I were you I would have bought that beautiful NIB Colt 6921 upper and pinned a Warcomp on it.
RE: Muzzle devices. The BCM’s that are sure to pop up as available in 14.5" mid length sooner than later should be available with NFA applies standard A2/maybe Comp 0, pinned A2X, pinned battlecomp something or other, or pinned Comp Mod 1. So you can get a “16 inch” 14.5 with one of a few different muzzle devices straight from BCM.
In case it needs to be said, nobody will be allowed to encourage illegal acts on this forum, which is privately owned.
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Quoting the beens-arounds-longs-enoughs-to-know-betters in a lame game of The Last Word isn’t precisely helpful, so please don’t do that, just report the post so we can clean it up.
CPM, that closes this chapter. Spare us the effort of deleting any more posts, and just stop, or the warning turns into an actual infraction, which will take the decision completely out of your hands.
Good a place to post this as anywhere… I’ve been mocking up some 14.5/7 barrels with A2s lately. The Adco/KAC 1/4” spacer is not quite enough. With the thinnest stack of shims required for timing, it is suuuuper close (15.99”-16.00”) and might work with some barrels. I needed extra shims to make it work with my SOCOM barrel for my POG gun clone. Two extra turns. There’s like .25”-.28” of threads engaged.
I’ve found that even my 14.7” requires an extra .09” of shims (no spacer, so at least there’s reasonable threads) to get past 16.00”. My 14.7” would work to get a FCD device or a KVP linear comp over 16” and makes me wonder if the 14.7” barrels were made for devices longer than than an A2, but shorter than 2.2”. Woulda been cooler if 15” barrels were a thing. Mos-Tek will do them, if thats your thing, and I might go that route next time I do a stainless barrel.
Make sure you measure before you weld pretty much anything.
OK, Firstly, THANKS to any & all who replied, I truly didn’t think I would get that many. As for the adherence to NFA Regs, yes it is totally aisine that we even have to decide between these minor issues, BUT, it is the Law. I personally won’t risk my firearms by deviating even by miniscule tolerances, as I do live in a predominantly Democratic State, & I wouldn’t put anything past them. So, I simply follow the Regs, even though they may absolutely ridiculous, as in the difference between owning an 16" versus the 14.5" variant ? EACH will perform similarly, just the shorter tends to be a bit more manageable. 2nd, I still may jump on the Colt, as all my current examples are either Colt, or an LMT 308MWSE, & yes, a absolutely beautiful Stag M-5 in 6.8 SPC. And honestly, that Stages quality rivals my Colts !! I’ve been thinking about this for years now, initially going to ship either my 6520 or 6920 Upper off to SFW to be cut & p/w, as he does an absolutely perfect job. However, between his price, & shipping I could also buy an new completed Upper from say BCM. So, ?? I’ve thought off calling the local ATF Boys & inquire as to legality of first purchasing an 6921ck Upper, & then shipping it out to be done ? In theory, all that it would require would be to install one of the over length either A2X or similar, & then Pin & Weld, right ? Too bad I just can’t Super Glue the long F/H on & call it done !!! ( That is a joke ! )
It is not illegal to own a “short” upper as just that, an upper not assembled into/onto a firearm.
Some people fret over so called constructive intent, for those folks, they either already own an SBR/stamped lower, or a pistol brace (and a “virgin” lower or a pistol lower), before taking possession of a “short” upper, if they want to be really super obviously law abiding. But really, if you have a ‘short’ upper, just don’t put it on a lower unless it’s a pistol or SBR lower.
Yes, in order to legally mount a 14.5" upper to a rifle lower with a real stock, permanently attaching an A2X or other long-enough muzzle device will do it.
I am not a lawyer and you shouldn’t take legal advice from me.
Back on task, BCM would be the easiest way if you keep checking back on their page to see what was in stock. Another option would be to contact a place that does P&Ws as well as sells uppers. I’m not sure if Grant does it, but he might and he carries Colt. Another option would be Rainier Arms, and I know that they do unless something recently changed.
Yup, I debated checking with the ‘Boys’ just to confirm that it’s OK to possess the 14.5" complete Upper, along with other complete AR’s on the same premises. I am fairly certain that as long as you don’t happen to have an ‘loose’ Lower Rcvr sitting around, it ‘should’ be good. But, ( there’s always a but ? ) I have learned throughout the years that many times a violation is whatever that particular SA happens to feel it is. And, even not you’re proven correct, and or no such violation ever really occurred, YOU still come out getting screwed !! Due of course to Attorney fees, having your weapons confiscated, public scrutiny, etc, etc. Even when & if you’re weapons are eventually returned, who knows what condition they’ll actually be in ? So, based upon those concerns, no, I decided not to check with my ATF Office. Plus, I’ve also learned throughout my career that even the ATF doesn’t actually know what is what. Same here with my State’s AGO, I don’t even call them anymore as they’re just as clueless. It’s indeed sad, but it goes on, all the time !! So, I’ll just keep an eye on BCM & hope something shows up in stock ? Also, I just checked with BCM regarding the respective weights between the SOCOM & Government profile Uppers. The SOCOM is heavier by 7 ounces, which based upon where all that extra weight is, it can make quite a difference in ‘perceived feel’ ? The BIG question is, do I ‘really’ need the added heat sink, or not ? Ohhhh, decisions, decisions ? I guess I’ll have to sleep on this one.
Buy the upper and have it pinned locally if you own a drill and a punch. Just use a piece of the bit for a pin and make friends with someone at a muffler shop for the 1.77 seconds worth of welding involved.
No need to call ATF or write letters. Their answer may be to restrict sales of 14.5” uppers.
Please don’t. All I read so far is the first sentence but that almost always equals a shit hand for gun owners. ATF typically does whatever they want which changes on any given day and often enough, their bullshit “rules” come from people asking questions.
ETA - just read the rest of your post so ignore mine above.
On socom vs government, I think that’s easy. Government is an absolutely ridiculous barrel profile so if you’re not going ELW or some other logical tapered profile, may as well get the socom.