I don’t know, I can tell a big difference in ride quality between a low end bike and a mid range bike. Mid range being $3500. I also don’t tear up components as bad. Most of the $1000-$1500 bikes have crap suspension, brakes, derailers, wheels and bottom bracket. They just don’t hold up to serious use.
My friend rides a $7000 Ibis and that thing is an amazing machine. If I had the dough I’d buy one.
At my size and willingness to launch off any obstacle shorter than I am, I found that I needed to spend $2500 or more to stop breaking all the parts off the things… the difference is that I have a bike now that would have been a DH capable setup of the late 90’s yet pedals better than XC stuff of the same vintage over the rough stuff - it’s just the sub-Deore/X5 level stuff that tends to be so poorly made that stupid problems arise more than the design being inadequate for the task. A $750 hardtail with X5/Deore parts is really a solid proposition if it comes with a solo air fork and usable hydraulic brakes, but most that meet those two latter key items are more in the $800-$950 range (e.g. Trek X-Caliber 8 is wholly better than the 6 just because the fork/brakes are better, and it happens to come with nicer pieces across the board).
It’s like AR’s - you don’t have to spend a ton to get something decent, but there is a floor under which they’re really only useful as a two-wheeled pedal thingy that shouldn’t be depended upon if used hard.
Yea I understand that and for my entry into MTB I know I dont need all the high end stuff. Now with my new roadbike, I am at a level that I can actually appreciate the Ultregra components, monster brakes, huge BB90, semi-aero wheels, etc… compared to my old aluminum bike with shit wheels, Shimano Sora shifters and de-railers, crap brakes, flexy rear drop out, etc…
The Trek X-Caliber line was what I was looking at. Is the X5 stuff THAT much better on the X8 than the Shimano is on the X7, enough at least to warrant the extra ~$150 cost? I know I want at least the Fox fork and you have to get into the X7 to get that. When I was researching a new road bike a lot of my buddies ride SRAM Red, but most bike shops I talked to said they prefered Shimano for road and SRAM for MTB.
Exactly.
The bike I posted on the previous page was probably a $2200 ride. It came with Shimano XT derailers, SLX wheels and brakes, and Deore bottom bracket. The forks were Fox 160mm travel Float RL 32mm and the shock was a Fox CTD (not shown in that pic). It was a pretty solid ride and it took plenty of abuse.
My next bike will probably have all Shimano XT components, Fox 34mm 160mm travel forks and a better Fox shock, and I really want a dropper seat post.
For the record, and what it’s worth, my pre-Trek Gary Fisher X-Caliber I upgraded to XTR, and everything was Shimano. I do not like FS so I never got one. When I started riding front suspension forks were new and of the devil, and $4,000 mountain bikes were not invented yet. Today my bike is worth, oh, about $500; new it was $1,800 and high-end. I stopped hard riding when I started having kids 13 years ago, and I have not worked in a bike shop in any capacity since the mid-90s, so I readily admit that my data is dated.
Just like the AR analogy, figure out what you want to do with it, then figure your budget. Most people who get higher end bikes simply do not ride them to the point of breaking them. Like the use of ARs, the bike dudes here ride harder than the average rider.
When people mention the words “Trek” and “X-Caliber” together it makes me throw up in my mouth a little. Gary Fisher was a great dude, very nice, until he sold out.
It’s amazing how much the industry has changed since the 90’s. I worked in 2 bike shops from about 99-02 and back then $1500 got you a nice ride. Now you are scraping the bottom of the barrel with that kind of money. All Chinese components, no sealed bearings, heavy wheels made of pot metal, and pogo sticks at both ends.
Most companies full suspension flagship models are as expensive or even more expensive than a brand new Japanese motocross bike. My friend paid more for his Ibis last summer than I did for my brand new 2013 Yamaha YZ250 in April of this year. My Yamaha is made in Japan, his Ibis frame is made in Taiwan. It’s gotten pretty ridiculous honestly.
Don’t even get me started on road bikes. $10k for a bike? F off…
Had no clue. Thanks for the education. My road bike was a Trek OCLV with mid-level group and it was $1,500 back in the day, bottom range of a mid-level bike. A buddy of mine with whom I work is a huge triathete, does a couple full Ironmans a year, his set-up is around $5,000 and he calls that “cheap.”
Yeah most roadies I know are running on $3000-$5,000 bikes and they seem pretty happy with them. But they are always talking about how that want whatever top of the line model that the magazines rave about. And I’d say the average mountain bike I see on the trail is at least a $3000 ride in my area. Most of the carbon bikes are $5000 or more. I see quite a few of the high end Trek, Specialized, and Santa Cruz bikes pretty regularly.
Yea I understand that and for my entry into MTB I know I dont need all the high end stuff. Now with my new roadbike, I am at a level that I can actually appreciate the Ultregra components, monster brakes, huge BB90, semi-aero wheels, etc… compared to my old aluminum bike with shit wheels, Shimano Sora shifters and de-railers, crap brakes, flexy rear drop out, etc…
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That sounds like the road bike I use as a fitness tool (since I actually care about mountain biking almost to the exclusion of road stuff).
Both make solid stuff above a certain point (for SRAM it’s the X5 with X7 Rear Derailleur where they start to run well, Shimano it’s the Deore with SLX that starts to really work well. I’m still a much bigger fan of the shimano brakes, for everything else they’re pretty similar until you’re into X01 price territory. The real bonus is the wheelset, fork, and small parts that improve a ton, but having better drivetrain is virtually always better. I didn’t feel I needed SLX stuff everywhere on my bike, but now that I have it I really appreciate it - the MUST have in my case were the brakes and suspension parts which somebody on my weight I really want SLX or better and a solid solo air fork with solid pedaling support. Sounds like that shop is at least switched on for road stuff (I run 105 FWIW, and it works even with me trying to cyclocross the thing on rocky dirt mountain trails).
The Altus/Acera stuff on the crank is still the garbage square peg pedal crank, and I know I make enough torque to strip them to pieces in hours regardless of how properly assembled they are - the non 10speed fixed cassettes are also a bit horrible unless you keep up with adjustments and lubrication. it does work, my buddy rides a bike with exactly that stuff, but he really only gets away with it because he weighs under 180 with a full pack and water.
agree on pricing 
especially like myself when you come from owning a store its hard to swallow I got some good deals though being a large volume store IBIS was small when I knew the guys and I got a full custom bike to me for $500
I still have my custom Rossin road bike old school cool a neat old Woodrup Touring and my outdated FSR with XT gear on it
my buddy has over 3K into his bike ? the prices as I see are out of control for what you get compared to what you could get not to long ago and they don’t seem to align with other inflation
I want to get a new bike at some point but when I do will look for a closeout and not care how old it is figure last 5 year even and try to do some low ball offer in a store where things are sitting and they will move
I wonder what the set margins are these days ? I was a specialized dealer and know they used to be very particular about things same as Trek and a few others
I’m also a fan of buying left over models to save money. That saved me $600 on my new Yamaha. They had the exact same bike sitting next to it except it was a 2014, but the 2013 was the better deal.
If you do want a good deal on an Ibis you can buy their demo bikes toward the end of the year for a good discount. I’ve thought about doing that.
I figure margins on the newer stuff have to be insane, especially since virtually every high end bike is made exclusively in Guangzhou or Taipei with US design; and nothing else is made out of anything but 7075/6061AL or relatively simple carbon fiber layups. I realize there are some hefty R&D costs, but looking at stuff like the rear suspension designs Steve Peat has won with, obviously none of what they’re putting time into changes the riding experience as drastically as advertized. Trek/Specialized are still really the picky manufacturers on MAP pricing and stuff, not sure about Giant; but the beginning of season prices on bikes and end of season closeout prices have an absolutely enormous gulf which tells me there are some healthy margins built in - arguably even more so on the lower end stuff since all the development cost has been paid for, and the cheap manufacturing is in place and ironed out.
I heard that Giant, Trek, Specialized and a few other bike names are all built in the same factory over in Asia…is that true? My older Fishers were built in Trek’s plant in Wisconsin. The Gary Fisher bikes now offered by Trek are watered down bikes and not of the style and type that Gary Fisher used to make when he was on his own.
I agree on pricing…mtb prices have gotten insane. I am sure the 4000 dollar mtb rides well…as I am sure the 4000 dollar Wilson 1911 also shoots very well. However…I have a mortgage and a child to feed and this is a weekend and after work hobby! LOL I swear…I don’t see where these zit-faced college kids get 3-5 grand to drop on a mt bike. That is mostly who I see riding these expensive bikes these days. I guess they live at their parents house and do not have any other bills so their paychecks can go all towards their bikes…I dunno.
I also agree that if you are not willing to blow at least 2 grand on a bike…stay away from full suspension. I bought a 1300 dollar KHS full suspension bike and wound up swapping the rear shock for a better unit and it still is not as nice as the 2 grand and up FS bikes. Mt KHS is way too heavy and the suspension is still not as “lively” as the 2 grand and up FS bikes. Lesson learned!
In the 1000-1500 range you can get a hard tail with a decent fork that you can upgrade later as you get better or as you wear it out. I also agree about Shimano components. All 3 of my bikes run Shimano stuff and I have no reason to buy Sram anything.
The 1000-1500 range also gets you into decent brakes and derailleurs. Ones you can live with and maybe upgrade a piece at a time as you learn and wear them out. The forks and brakes on the 500-600 dollar bikes range from barely useable to completely horrible if you ask me.
-brickboy240
Yeah there are 2 or 3 large factories in Taiwan that manufacture almost all of the major companies frames for them. They are still designed and R&D’d here in the states though. Oddly enough the Fuji I had was a Specialized design and it had a Specialized sticker on the rear chain stay. But it was marketed as a Fuji and built in Taiwan by the same manufacturer who built the Specialized.
I got into MTB a little over 2 years ago and have been having a blast. I definitely fall once in a while but nothing some super glue or a beer can’t fix… I have been riding an entry level Trek Mamba 29er hard tail and have beat the crap out of it. Granted I am a 225 lb guy who isn’t easy on his gear. It is a great way to get out and clear my head while testing my skills.
I really want to try a Fatbike and see what that is like. Those just look like a lot of fun.
For anybody looking to get into the sport or upgrade, most manufacturers have demo days around the country where you can try several bikes for free. I have found that my improved abilities are helped by a full suspension bike on the trails around my area.
Bobby, there is a Trek demo day in Castlewood on 10-25-14 if you wanted to try them out.
My KHS also has a Specialized decal on the rear suspension. Apparently it was the older S-Works Stump Jumper’s rear suspension that KHS bought the rights to and put on their FS bike.
Still too heavy and not worth it…