Video updates post 40
My wife grabbed these videos without me knowing after she got done shooting her 22 pistol. Can you guys give me any advice on anything you see? All of them I was just expelling ammo. Wasn’t trying to run it fast. Gun is a sa trp operator shooting 4.8grs wst 230gr fmj
https://youtu.be/VAEqNWqMBks
https://youtu.be/LdudgrIMOUc
https://youtu.be/xRDzmAxXo7E
https://youtu.be/YitSxdOh-rQ
Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk
Props to you for asking for input.
My observations are from video 4 where you have your whole body in view.
Good grip … your support thumb is pointed at the target and we can instinctively shoot at / very near to where we point
Arms … try straightening the a bit more and see if that helps you feel more solid during recoil. I like a little bend, some lock their arms, right now you may have a bit too much bend
Stance … try squaring up toward the target instead of that wide bladed stance. If you’re married to bladed, work on pointing your gun side foot toward the target. We can index our whole body / use our whole body as an aiming assist.
Head & shoulders … see how you’re hunching your shoulders up and lowering your head to meet the gun? Try raising your head and raising your arms so that the gun meets your eyes, with your head/eyes fully level to the target.
Nice place to shoot … your backyard?
I’ll work on the arms, I noticed watching those videos I’m more bladed than I thought. I’m not married to any stance, I just want to improve. Have been trying hard not to do the hunchback of notre Dam thing, apparently I need to try harder.
Should I just go back to slow steady consistent draws and presentation?
Ya it’s our backyard you could say. It’s part of 18000 acre Ranch I work on. Pretty lucky to have that much space to go and send rounds down range
Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk
Nice! And nice of the owners to let you shoot there.
I would just work dry fire in front of a mirror, slow and steady til you’re seeing what you like and then add some speed in gradually. Face the mirror and also stand to it sideways.
I’d do everything PWR noted.
Two additional things -
Notice your upper torso comes back on recoil, I’d try to get a little more weight transfer forward. An old mantra I remind myself of from time to time is ‘Head erect, eyes on target, feet, knees shoulders and hips square into the threat, slight bend at the knees and waist, feet shoulder width apart, strong foot slightly to the rear.’ Ron Avery does the best job ever talking about stance in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wctcyewEZk
Additionally, notice how your head slowly settles back down after each shot dropping back to the sights? Focus on follow-through, staying on the sights throughout the shot, following them back onto target.
I went and tried what was suggested. I dry fired a lot and then ran some through a ruger 22/45. Getting my legs right wasn’t to much of a problem, but keeping from being hunched up and not flinching my head took some effort. Most of it was with a holstered weapon, focusing on smooth draw and being in the correct position with each trigger pull. I noticed at the end the flinch was wanting to come back. Should I be focusing on the front sight through the recoil?
Here are target pictures through the session
32 rounds
48 rounds
91 rounds
The smaller holes up top were from an ocw test with the ar.
I wasn’t trying to shoot against the timer necessarily, was going for smoothness, correctness and keeping rounds on target while not shooting at a bullseye pace. All shooting was from 8-15 yds. This is the cleanest target I’ve had I think. Thanks to the suggestions from above. I think this is going to be a long road though.
Eta their are some 22lr warm up in the red in the first picture it appears
Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk
Nice shooting … clearly you’re a fast learner!
My gut reaction to that group is that you can start giving up on the front site, if wanting to practice for SD shooting. Try just focusing on threat, not your sights. That’s what happens anyways in a real SD shooting … people interviewed after surviving a shooting don’t remember ever seeing their gun, just the bad guy.
You can “afford” larger group for SD … focus on the target, not the sights and think of the knuckle of your trigger finger and your support thumb as pointers. Point them at the target and fire. Rachet up the speed until you’re about paper plate accurate at 7 yards.
You’ll be a dangerous man with that skill under your belt.
Then, have two targets side by side and pop each twice and move back & forth between the two, quickly, without sights. That’s my basic SD shooting drill.
Congrats again on some nice shootin’!
My 100% free amateur professional opinion:
You are getting good comments here, and you are on the right track.
As 26 Inf pointed out your are being pushed back on the recoil of each shot. This is probably from your overall body position. You have your feet in a position that is un-natural for either standing, moving, or preparing to move. Your weight should be biased forward, balls of feet, knees, hips, shoulders, etc. That Ron Avery video looks like it explains that well. John McPhee (SOB/Shrek) has a similar type of video on the topic. He explains stationary stance as an extension of your normal stride, as ultimately you want to be able to move and shoot at the same time anyway. I am confidant, that if you fix your body position (feet, knees, hips), the need to reposition your upper body after each shot will go away.
Although a lot of great shooters shoot arms straight, the bend at the elbows that you have may be just fine. Take a look at Frank Proctor as an excellent shooter who keeps his neck and head erect for better/best head position for visual processing, and the elbows significantly bent. He is simply bringing the sights to his normal vision plane, instead of drawing, raising pistol and then ‘fishing’ down with the eyes in an attempt to meet the sights.
On ‘getting better’ in general:
Before working on speed, GET A SHOT TIMER so you have a way to measure and analyze your performance. Not sure if you were just randomly speeding up and slowing down, or doing a failure drill, but looking at your splits will help you speed up overall, once you are ready.
Are you water skiiing or shooting? And what’s with the wide stance…?
Also, stop with the turtling.
I find the best upper body position is upper arms straight (elbows same width as shoulders), with shoulders rolled forward (not scrunched up), kicking the elbows out. The leads to a lot of arm movement with little body or vertical gun movement.
Put a lot of weight on the front foot. Bend more at knees.
Act like your boxing/fighting, and shoot like that.
Or start mag dumping to find how different stances react and use the one that gives you the best control. Don’t worry about a target.
Thanks for the insight. I had used the thumbs to help get in target, but not the knuckle. I put my finger into the trigger guard about 2/3 of the way into extension. I do dry fire quite a bit at night and in the morning. My problem is that danged head jerk though. I was trying to focus on the front sight to make sure I wasn’t flinching and trying to follow through the shot, is their something better to do to accomplish the same thing?
I think I developed that head jerking thing while running against the timer. But did notice I wasn’t using sights just feel. To speed up and keep from head jerking, any thoughts?
Thanks for the help.
Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk
I was just plinking in those videos and not quite sure what was going on, the more I watch them the more I’m seeing a monkey trying to hump a football. I do have a shot timer, and out of a serpa I am around 1.20 to the first shot and am in the .16-.22 range on the splits on one target, when I’m warmed up. This is shooting a near max load of wst and 230 gr ammo.
Should stance be thrown all in together? As in correct foot placement and not humping up my shoulders? That’s all I was going for today was to try to un**** what I was doing in the video. Drawing, staying square, strong foot back very slightly, good grip, not sinking head into shoulders and leaning into the pistol more. I was trying to rebuild a foundation.
I had practiced it dry, before the live fire. The trigger press I’m fairly confident in, I dry fire a lot at night working on maintaining a steady sight picture and that it’s not interrupted through the trigger pull. I press the trigger in one motion, not to where the slack is taken out, then the sear disengages. I try to make it one full motion and never disturb my sight picture.
Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk
The boxer thing makes very good sense thank you.
Thanks to everyone’s help. I’ll see if I can’t record next time I shoot and put it up. See if it’s any better.
Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk
It’s all good man. Not trying to be harsh on you, so don’t feel bad. I probably look like a soup sandwich most of the time. It’s good that your wife took those videos, have her do that as often as possible. Ideally we’d all have our own personal photographer for learning purposes. Watching your own video is a fantastic way to break down what you are doing right/wrong. Very common in pro athletics, so that should tell you something. Be careful with that Serpa.
Yes, I’d say stance should be thrown all together. Personally I think in terms of 1. Trigger, 2. Visual (eyes/sights), 3. Grip (hands on the gun), 4. Stance/everything else (feet, legs, hips, torso, head, shoulders, etc.). If you wanted to simplify it further, you could throw grip in with stance. Keep in mind there is an interplay between grip and how far you push your arms/hands forward, and haw much you splay your elbows out.
Trigger press: what you are doing is fine as long as you are not moving/influencing the gun as you are pulling the trigger. The difficulty most shooters have is going to be doing that at speed, in rapid fire, as in pulling the trigger over and over without moving the gun. there is a great video with Rob Leatham out there, to the effect of ‘don’t worry about the sights, worry about learning to pull the trigger (fast) w/o moving the gun.’
Elephant, no worries. Didn’t think you were being harsh at all, I’m a little thicker skinned than that. The only way to learn is to know wtf I’m doing wrong. I’ve only taken one class and that was with vickers last year, everything else I’m self taught and as we all know that’s a tough way to learn. So thanks for any input
Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk
I went and ran a few against the timer today. I was from .22-.32 on my splits and averaging 1.3 on the draw. But I noticed that I wasn’t shrugging my shoulders and feet were staying more square. It was a lot easier to keep rounds on target. Thank you guys for the advice. I’m going to try to video the time I go shoot.
Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk
To the OP, do not take this advice.
Repetitions with sighted fire carries over to situations where you might not have time to get a perfect sight picture - not the other way around.
Always keep a high accuracy standard when training.
Just because people don’t remember using their sights does not mean they didn’t.
Sights are there for a reason.
As far as feedback on your shooting, notice on the last video (full body shot) - you are milking your grip with each shot. This means that your support hand grip is not strong enough.
Thanks for the input. How can you tell that the weak hand is not strong enough grip? I noticed on one of the videos that a few times the pistol recoiled and twisted to the right.
Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk
Look at the last video of the ones you posted (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YitSxdOh-rQ&feature=youtu.be). You re-acquire your left hand grip on the two first shots. That is called milking the grip.
It usually happens when your support hand position shifts during recoil, and is a result of not gripping hard enough.
Try shooting a bill drill to see how your hits are. Here is a vid of me shooting one the other day:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bg-cCd4ujkw
On the signal of the timer, draw and shoot 6 rounds as fast as you can, while still hitting the A zone of an IPSC target.
It will help you analyze your draw, grip, recoil control, sight picture and trigger control.
If you think about it you’re probably getting free advice from people who have BTDT and instructor/trainers. Smart and humble, and I’m learning by reading so I thank you for posting your videos.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk