Any .223 Reloaders Here????

Ok guys,
I’m trying to start reloading .223 ammo, on my new Dillon 550 press. I have already been loading tons of .45ACP with great success.

I have basically been trying to decide WHICH bullet to reload for .223, and I’m having a heck of a time deciding. I am DEFINITELY going to go with something heavy, like 75gr or 77gr.
Now I do not know what all choices I’ve got, other than the Sierra Matchking 77gr BTHP.
SO, I would like to ask you guys what you think? I have not yet checked prices, so I’m HOPING that I can save some decent $$ reloading myself, even when using these top of the line bullets/projectiles.
Can anyone here shed some info on this subject? I mean, what kind of savings are possible, when using quality bullets? IS IT POSSIBLE to save $$, without using low quality bullets???

Can anyone tell me HOW reloading .223 will be different from the 45ACP I’m used to? In other words, is there any other step(s) that will have to be added to the process???
Example: I “hear” that when reloading ANY military rifle ammo, a case trimmer will have to be used on each case that has previously been fired before.
Is this true? Do they usually ALL have to be trimmed, even if they’re “once-fired” brass, or is case trimming usually only necessary if the casing has been fired several times???
Also, if anyone has ANY other specifics such as powder brand/type, or primer brand/type, I would be SUPER GREATFUL guys.
As soon as I can decide WHICH bullet to go with, and as soon as I can make sure I’ve got everything I need, I’m going to start reloading and stocking up on ammo.
I just need a little help from someone experienced, in order to get started…
Thanks SO MUCH guys…

75 gr Hornady is significantly cheaper than 77gr Matchkings.

Reloading costs about half as much as new ammo for .223/5.56.

There is nothing critically different from load .45 ACP. Just make sure the bullet is seated properly to clear the magazine.

I second the above. While the 77 is a better bullet, it isn’t buy much, I have shot them both out to 600yds. The big difference in price is quite astonishing, especially considering how close they are in performance. Some people do find them to preform better in their rifles than 77s. I have a bunch (of both) and haven’t bought them for a while, but last time I did you could almost get 2 75s to each 77. As far as sizing goes, just trim em and shoot em for at least 2 loads before trimming again( and even then measure first). While some will swear up and down, that you are a fool for not trimming every time, they will also be the ones who alphabetize their medicine cabinets. My loads were stout and you would think the brass would have stretched like play-do, but they didn’t. However I will not encourage you to do this if if it will mess with your peace of mind. In that case you can trim them .005 short and let em grow in if you think they will. That being said, if you have the money buy a girard power case trimmer. I haven’t choked up for one (about $300 or so) my buddy has one, I just go there with brass and beer. It is a cadillac, and once set up properly trimming brass is effortless, dare I say almost fun.

Horn 75 is the way to go for price.

Keep an eye on www.snipershide.com. Guys over there occasionally organize group buys for components. Several will get together and they end up doing a drop ship deal where they order many thousands of bullets and/or many lbs of powder in 8lb jugs and they get good rates. I’ve used this for powder and it was good deal. You won’t see group buys for plinking bullets, but good match bullets, yes.

Regarding trimming, frequency required will always be dictated by case length. You are correct, if you trim to the recommended “trim-to” length, you ought to be able go a couple of reloadings between trimmings.

Your trimming frequency will be a function of your rifle’s chamber, how hot your loads are, and probably most importantly, how you have your resizer set up. Most of the case growth experienced occurs from resizing moreso than firing, so once you get your resizer set up you’ll need to take some before and after measurements to see how much growth you experience.

Having said that, what I’ve done based on many recommendations from Dillon owners is, I got a Dillon trimmer and it will be mounted it in a separate toolhead. Toolhead #1 will have the Dillon trimmer/trim die combo in station #1 and station #3 will have my FL sizer mounted in that position. Cases will then be run through the tumbler afterwards to remove lube.

I plan on taking care of priming off the press, using a hand held, tray-type primer (Lee Auto Prime).

Toolhead #2 will be dedicated to charging, seating and crimping (you would also include priming with this toolhead if you intend to use Dillon’s priming system). I may end up putting a flaring die in station #1 if I need to debur the neck interiors. From what I gather, the Dillon cutter spins so fast and makes such a clean cut that you don’t get a cut with a bunch of burrs that need chamfering/deburring. What minmal burrs there are, the post-sizing tumbling session reportedly takes care of them. Some guys use a Lyman M-die to re-set the neck dimension and basically iron out any remaining interior burrs that might be there, others just live with them and proceed straight to charging and seating.

Another option is a bench mounted trimmer like either a Gracey or Giraud that simultaneously trims, chamfers and deburrs, or a lathe-type trimmer but those are a royal PITA when you start talking .223-volume production requirements.

Regardless, my philosophy is you should always trim after resizing so loading bottle necked rifle cartridges is a bit different than loading pistol cartridges which don’t grow near as much (I can’t remember the last time I trimmed a pistol case). That’s why I separate my loading process into two processes – a sizing/case prep phase and a final loading phase. I’ve done it this way for years on my turret press, but it would take four pulls of the handle to get one loaded round. That’s why I went progressive, and just yesterday I mounted my new Dillon to my bench so I’m kind of in the same boat as you. But I researched long and hard regarding how to take care of trimming, and what I’ve described above is a pretty popular approach among more experienced Dillon owners. Plus it’s much cheaper than a Giraud.

The only downside may be noise. I understand the trimmer (and hookup to a vacuum cleaner) makes things noisy so I’ll have to wear earpro when using the trimmer. I may set the vacuum cleaner outside between my garage and shed or I may rig a long run where it’s at the other end of the garage. But Gracey’s and Girauds use big electric motors so they have a noise signature to contend with. If you need quiet because of your setup/situation, you’re going to have to trim by hand or use something that you can hook up an electric screwdriver to, but production will be S-L-O-W. I know this from experience because up until now I’ve used Lee’s trimming system, and while effective, it is S-L-O-W.

The last option – I haven’t ever used one of tehse but some guys do. They use a RCBS X-die. With these you trim the cases .010 shorter than the recommended “trim-to” length (1.740 instead of 1.750), and then from that point on, you never need to trim again. The X-die is supposed to have some built in stop in the mandrel that limits case growth length. I’m not sure though if you have any way to adjust for headspace and neck interior dimension using this die. You might want to look into this.

Lots of HP guys use Varget, RL-15, either 4895, VV 140/540 or TAC for their heavyweight loads. Just use a manual and work up loads. Powders which are appropriate for 55 grain pills are a tad too fast for the heavier bullets.

Dillon’s powder measure will have some variation with extruded powders – don’t be surprised by a maximum spread of .7 grain, with most of the variation falling in the + .2 grain range. For this reason, take a look at TAC, it’s a ball powder.

You probably know, but if not, you’ll need to either ream or swage primer pockets for mil-sourced brass (e.g., LC).

Good luck.

I hope this thread continues to grow. I’ve loaded all my pistol rounds for years now on my XL650, but have just recently started putting together a press specifically for .223. I’ve bought some Dillon carbide dies and a used RL450, as I thought it would be better (ie. more simple) for someone just getting started in rifle reloading. I knew there would come a day when I’d have to start reloading for my rifles, and with the current surplus ammo situation (not to mention that my 11 year old son has started to compete in local matches with me ;>) and the apperant take over by the dems, the time is NOW!

Well guys, I really appreciate the info.
Jmart, that was an excellent post.

However, I don’t know if I’m more confused now, or what?

What I REALLY need to know, is how the tasks performed at EACH station on my Dillon, will DIFFER than from what they did before, when reloading 45ACP.(there are 4 total “stations”, each performing a different task simultaneously)
I’m just trying to figure out how things are going to work with .223, as compared to 45ACP. I THINK the list below, is how things have been working on my Dillon 550, while loading 45ACP. I’m HOPING that the .223 process, will be very similar, so as to make it that much easier.
Things basically go down like this, when I load 45ACP on my Dillon 550:

As you guys know, there are a total of 4 stations:

  1. -Station #1 deprimes AND primes the first round. I THINK it ALSO flares the rim of the casing too.

  2. -Station #2 drops the powder in the casing

  3. -Station #3 seats the bullet

  4. -Station #4 crimps the rim of the casing back tightly around the bullet.

IIRC, this is how things work on my 45ACP setup with the Dillon 550, and it’s 4 stations.
I’m just trying to interpret jmart’s reply up above, to try and see how things are going to work differently on stations 1-4, when doing .223…

Kind of confusing to a beginning reloader like me. Thanks for ALL the replies though guys. Maybe I’ll catch on one day…
Sure hope so, as I’m running out of $$ for ammo, and I need to start reloading SOON!
Thank you guys so much…

I decided to dive into this thread since it does pertain to reloading. What do I need to get started reloading .223. Is there like a starter kit that gets you going. I know its a little lame that i’m asking for a broad question sorry. I just need to get started or thinking about wether or not reloading is going to be cheaper than buying factory new stuff.

Station one resizes and deprimes the case.
Station two bells the case mouth and drops the powder charge.
Station three seats the bullet.
Station four taper crimps the case.

Military rifle brass with crimped primer pockets adds a step to the procedure, as does loading rifle cartridges.

Basically, after depriming, you have to remove the crimp from the primer pocket, and rifle brass will need to be trimmed.

No matter what you do on the 550, you’re going to have to run them through the press twice.

The messages about the Dillon case trimmer refer to running the brass through the press once to deprime, resize and trim the case to length. Most then tumble the cases again to debur them. Brass that has already had this done to it is sometimes referred to as “processed” brass.

To oversimplify, then on the second trip through the press, a toolhead setup with Dillon dies will then load these processed cases almost exactly like you’re used to loading pistol calibers.

You make it sound as if a power case trimmer is a symphony orchestra. A giraurd is quiet enough to use and carry on a normal conversation at the same time

The Dillon trimmer alone isn’t too loud as I found out today. Hook it up to a Shopvac though and it gets loud. The Shopvac is optional, but it keeps the brass shavings in check.

Razorhunter,

Once your primer pockets are de-crimped (a one-time only procedure) you could run your 550 just like you do 45 ACP.

Station 1 – Resize/deprime and then seat a primer on the downstroke

Station 2 – Charge case

Station 3 – Seat bullet

Station 4 – crimp bullet

The only thing you won’t be able to do is trim your cases as you are running them through the press (I guess you could remove the just-resized case and run it through a lathe-type trimmer or a Gracey/Giraud and then reinsert it back into the shellplate, but I would think that would destroy the rhythm of operating a progressive press). What might be a better approach would be to trim them sufficiently short prior to resizing so that even after they went through the resizer, they’d still be under 1.760".

Also, you realize you’ll need to lube your .223 cases as you resize them. Some guys get pretty anal about lube inside the neck contaminating the powder charge, that’s why they separate sizing from charging by using dedicated toolheads, with a tumbling of the brass in between to remove any residual lube. If you elect to do it all in one shot then you’ll need to either tumble your assembled cartridges or wipe them off with some alcohol to remove the lube. You do not want any residual lube on your cases as you run then them through your weapon. I suspect the aspect of lubing cases would be different because I’m assuming you are using a carbide resizer for your .45 ACP and those resizers don’t require you to lube cases.

Relaoding will definitely save you money if shoot much at all.

There are many starter kits ranging from Lee’s at $80 to RCBS/Redding/maybe Hornady, and they would run just over $200, maybe a bit more. These would all be single stage kits which are great for beginners but are lousy for production. Loading 300 rounds on a SS takes some time.

Progressive press kits will run $350 and up depending upon which model you get. You don’t have to run it as a progressive if starting out, but realize with a progressive you are processing either four or five cases simultaneously so they allow you to increase production.

regardless of which kit you get, you’ll also need some manuals, a couple of tools (calipers, maybe some check weights, a deburring tool), a tumbler, all that can run over $100.

The Dillon case trimmer is not loud at all and you can use the shop vac on an as needed basis. Quite a few cases can be trimmed before you need to run the vac.

I’ve been loading .308 on my Dillon 650 for years using the size, trim, tumble and process primer pocket method as described above. I use the press to prime, charge with powder, powder check, seat and crimp. I know that’s five stations but if your brass is trimmed you really don’t need to seat and crimp separately.

The way prices are going, I’ll be getting what I need to load .223 on the Dillon real soon.

I am no expert, but I have loaded rifle and pistol stuff for 26+ years. I still learn things all the time, so I will just say how I load 5.56.

I buy brass off of e-bay. Lake City military, or 223 Domestic. Once Fired. Or so it says. 10 or 12 bucks a thousand + shipping.

Trim length is critical. You can either mic each case to check for length (which I used to do) or you can just put it in the trimmer (which I do now, for saving time). I set the trimmer to trim .030 under max. Almost all cases will trim some.
I can trim 200-300 in 30 minutes or so. I don’t yet have a 3-way cutter, so I have to chamfer after. 15 minutes for the same number of cases.

I use a RCBS Small Base X-Die for sizing. That is the reason for trimming .030 under. The X-Die will slow down case growth.

Tumble all cases. You can also tumble before you trim.

Lube. I use Hornady one shot. Spray cases on all sides from a 45 degree angle up. This allows some to get inside the case mouth’s.

I am using a Dillon 550B. Let the lube stand for a couple of minutes, then get at it. Once powder measure is set, and bullet depth is set, we are good to go.

I have never removed a primer crimp from Mil Brass. A few go in hard, and I have had to toss a couple of cases because of this, but after thousands of rounds I have had no problems. (Flame Away) but this is the way I do it.

I don’t normally crimp 5.56. Even if the bullets have a cannular. I have never seen a need to or had a reason to.

After the cases are loaded, I lay them on a towel and spray with electronic quick dry cleaner. Roll them with my hand, and repeat. This removes the case lube.

Then I run them through my case gauge. I want to know that they are going to chamber. New brass there is know need to do this, but with once fired I have found out it is necessary. A once fired case that was loaded hot, may size ok, but will still not chamber.

This is just my way. Every one has their own style, and you have to figure out what you want works for you.

Ok, here’s a question.
Someone define “resize” for me. Does this mean to resize the diameter of the casing neck, or does this mean to resize the length of the casing???

Secondly, WHY is case lube necessary in .223 reloading, but not with 45ACP reloading? (at least I have not PERSONALLY used any nasty case lube). Maybe I should have been???

Finally, jmart mentioned above, that he assumed I have been using a “carbide resizer”, which would have not required I use case lube.
Well, I honestly don’t know, so I guess I need to figure out if I’ve been using carbide. I honestly DO NOT think I own a carbide resizer, and I honestly don’t know what part this even refers to. Is this the die that I have on station #1, which deprimes, primes, and flares the case open for the 45ACP bullet???
I guess I just need to figure out what “resizing” is, and how it applies to the 45ACP I’ve been doing…

Sorry for the ignorance. So many terms, and I need to get this all straightened out…
Thanks for bearing with me guys.

It’s a HUGE surprise to me, to find out that I will have to run EVERY shell I reload, through my Dillon 550 TWICE, for .223…

Also, is this “military brass”, that requires the primer pocket to be decrimped, ONLY 5.56 brass, or is this all brass, even .223???
Thanks guys…

Case lube is not needed when sizing straight walled cartridges like the 45 ACP when using carbide dies. Bottle neck cartridges like the .223 require lubing in regular dies as well as carbide dies or you will stick a case in the die.

Full length resizing sizes the entire case down to just above the base for reliable chambering.

You do not have to run the cases through twice but sizing first keeps case lube off your hands and out of your seating die when doing the other operations. A lube such as Hornandy One Shot would keep down the mess
and you could do the once through.

On a .223 case you do not need to flare or bell the case mouth. When you are loading pistol on your Dillon the powder station is where the belling takes place on my 450 and 650. On the rifle a kind of reverse funnel sits on top of the case for powder filling.

Military primers are crimped in place and when removed will leave a burr around the primer pocket that most folks remove in various ways to make seating a new primer easier. Commercial brass does not have this crimp.

I hope that this has answered some of your questions. If not, fire away.

When a case fires it expands radially, grips the chamber’s walls, and then retracts or shrinks slightly. At this stage the dimensions are larger than before firing. Additionally, the can stretch, or lengthen, if headspace is bad.

To reuse the case again, it needs to be squeezed back to pre-firing dimensions so : (a) there’s enough grip in the neck area to grip a new bullet, and (b) to allow easy chambering. This is especially true in semi-autos.

You may have seen two types of resizers, either full length resizing or neck resizing. FL resizing squeezes it all back down – neck, body, shoulder, and that’s what you want for your AR. DO NOT PURCHASE A NECK SIZING DIE. These are used mainly in bolt action rifles for a variety of reasons, just realize they are not appropriate for semi autos.

If you haven’t been using any lube I can virtually guarantee you that you are using a carbide resizer. If you weren’t, resizing force would be very high and you might have stuck a case in the die. Carbide is a very hard, very slick material. It is incorporated mainly in straight walled pistol cartridges’ resizing dies. All the carbide is is a ring of carbide material that’s ground to match the taper of the case. You should be able to see it right at the base of the die you are using in station #1.

Any bottlenecked cartridge resizing dies will be made of steel. Steel isn’t as as slick, plus the botttleneck nature of the case requires you to use some type of lube. It’s not that big of a deal, but you need to make sure that you lube the body of your cases, and apply a dab inside the neck. This allows the expander ball to work easier as you retract the case from die on the ram’s downstroke.

One last point – Dillon does sell a carbide .223 resizer. Some peolpe believe this allows them to get by without lubing their cases. NOT SO. Dillon says right up front you still need to lube. The only advantage to paying the premium for the carbide is longer die life. Some commercial reloaders will use these, but for the average hobby reloader, I don’t think it’s needed. Just get a set of steel dies, keep them clean, make sure your cases are clean going in and it will last a long, long time.

Here is what I do for .223.

First I resize/deprime on my single stage press. I put a bunch of cases in an cardboard box, the kind shirts come in. Then I spray them with hornanday one shot case lube, kind of rolling them around in the box as I spray. Some guys have said they have to wait for the lube to dry before running them through their dies but I have found the opposite to be true. If I wait for it to dry I stick cases. Next I resize/decap. Next is trim/chamfer then an hour in the tumbler. Than I run them through the 550 leaving the sizing die out of the first station. I only use the first station to prime. You can put in a universal decapper in that station to knock out in tumbling media that gets stuck in the flash hole. Stage two drops powder, three seats bullets and four crimps. I use a Lee Factory Crimp die in station four. With the LFCD you don’t need to worry too much about having exact case lengths but IMO they should be pretty close.
Now, after you have a bunch of cases that you have loaded once, and are therefor pretty close to trim length you can screw your sizing die back in station one and go to town. I first put them in the tumbler though. You will still need to lube, so I just get out the cardboard box and lube as normal than run everything through the dillon. After loading this way, I put the loaded rounds in the tumbler for about fifteen minutes to get the lube off. Because you have to lube .223, loading will not be anywhere as fast as for .45 but its not too bad and you save a shit ton of money.
The tasks at each station are pretty much the same, the difference is you have to lube and trim. You don’t have to trim every time but I do for the first loading of the brass. Others have said the Giraurd (sp?) trimmer is a PIA, that is the exact opposite of everything I have heard. I do not have one so I can’t say for sure but after watching a member of arfcoms video that thing looked like the shit. Trims/chamfers/deburs all in one shot and took about a second per case. Its on my short list of reloading equipment to buy. The only reason I don’t have one now is I’ve been bitten by the class 3 bug and am saving money for suppressors:) For trimming, I have a hand crank Forster and a hand crank RCBS and an electric Lyman. They all get the job done but its painfully slow.

Thanks Mark! Excellent post. I’m getting there.

I still have some questions though.

  1. HOW do I know IF I need to de-crimp my brass? I mean, is ALL .223 brass in need of decrimping? I have read that “military brass” needs de-crimping, but HOW do I know if I have military brass that needs decrimping? Is this only necessary for 5.56 casings or what???

  2. How about the Dillon “Rapid Trim 1200B Case Trimmer”??? Anyone know anything about it? It appears as if this thing is an attachment for the Dillon presses, and it actually mounts up on the press like a standard die. Cost new is $200 plus the cost of the size/trim die(s)…

  3. Is there a BEST quality powder out there I should be using??? I mean, I heard so much about Winchester 231 for 45ACP reloading, so that is what I used.
    What should I use for .223?

  4. Can anyone tell me what is the exact name of the bullet that is used in the Hornady .223 TAP FPD round??? I am trying to decide on a bullet, that is either 75gr or 77gr, and has performance like the TAP round, OR the Mk262 round does. I HEAR that the TAP FPD bullet is a bit better of a performer, so I might just go with the 75gr TAP bullet, when I figure out which bullet this actually is. I just want to reload my own version of .223 TAP FPD, OR an Mk262 clone…

I have used both military and comercial brass in reloading .223 for my varmint rifle. You will notice the difference between the two. If your using once fired military, you will need to remove it and once done, never again. I use a Dillon super swage 600, that makes it painless :slight_smile: .

The case trimmer, does mount on a press and looks like a great way to turn out a lot of brass in a little time, I myself would like to try one.

As far as powder goes, I use 844 surplus powder right now for varmint loads and will use the same for my carbine loads. Good savings to be had using it. I have used H335, BL-C(2) and a couple of others. Since your using a progressive press (I use an XL 650) I would suggest sticking with a ball powder that will run thru your powder measure with good consistancy. 844, H335, BL-C(2) are ball powders. As far as what works well in an AR platform, others may have more info on this. In my experiance, those 3 powders burned very clean and have never given any trouble, but that is from a 24" bolt action, not a 16" gas operated rifle.

Well after a bit of hands on time with the 1200 I give it an A+ for effectivess and a C- for user friendliness. But I was able to rectify that.

My problem is with the shitty lockrings Dillon provides, the lack of enough threads on the trim die body coupled with the short/thin lockring and the fact that if you don’t get the sucker cinched down tight, the torque of the motor at startup will spin the die in the toolhead. So all of your careful adjustment to get the shoulder bump just right all went right out the window. Arghhhh!!!

The solution – a Lee rubber O-ring lockring on the underneath side of the toolhead and a new Dillon lock ring (free, after buggerring up the first one fighting with the adjustment getting it right) on the topside of the toolhead. Plus a little dremel cutter action to relieve the underneath side of the Lee lockring that butts up against the frame so you can slide the toolhead in and out freely.

Once cinched down the trimmer and trim die combination work A+++++. The cut is clean, there are minimal burrs becasue the blade spins faster than anything else on the market. I’m tumbling my brass now and quite honestly, I don’t expect I’ll have to deburr or chamfer. I’ve read the same from a bunch of Dillon users, they just don’t bother with those extra steps.

The only thing I’m going to add is a Dillon 1" open ended wrench for their shitty lockrings. They are smaller outside diameter because it can be a tight fit on the cramped toolhead with more conventional lockrings, plus it looks to be shorter/thinner in height. The Dillon lockrings are very short – they engage only 2 threads or so on the die. That’s why I think the die spins during motor startup, there’s just too much torque for that lockring to handle. Anyway, the Dillon wrench is short enough that you can manipulate it underneath the trimmer motor’s lockring. A conventional wrench is just too tall, it’s a bitch trying to cinch down the small lockring without bumping into the underneath side of the upper lockring.

As far as bullets, just use the Hornady 75 BTHP Match. Do not use the 75 grain A-Max, that is a different bullet. As far as powder, use Ramshot TAC. It’s a ball powder that will meter fine. Or use Varget or RL-15. They are reasonably short stick extruded powders that meter OK, but not as well as a ball powder. Lastly, keep an eye out for Accurate Arms powders. Occasionally they dump some powder on the market and they’ll sell it cheap. 2230-C and Data 68 are their more recent surplus powders, but they have dried up. They used to sell for around $70 for an 8 lb jug. That’s a great price, but when the powder goes, it’s gone. Natchez Shooters Supply usually carries these surplus powders.