I am building an M16A4 clone(20" with removable carry handle). I have never messed with one of these iron sights before. I have all of my other guns zero’d at 50 yards(all have scopes of some kind) so I know the holds and am most comfortable with that distance vs. 25 or 100 simply because I know the holds. My rear sight is a 6/3 with 1/2 click increments(4 clicks between numbers vs. 2). I have read up on the IBZ tutorial and have adjusted my sight wheel for bottom at 6/3 -4 as instructed. I will be primarily shooting an M193 clone reload.
With this setup and the zero at 50 yards with small peep, do the rest of the marks on the sight wheel mean anything anymore? I havent really seen this mentioned. It probably has, but I missed it. Ive read about 10 different threads talking about this zero. The 100 yard RIBZ says that the marks on the wheel correspond to the distances, but I havent seen anything mentioned with the IBZ 50 yard zero setup. The instructions also state the large peep will also basically give you the same POI as the small peep with this setup, but give you a better FOV. Is this true?
I know the proof is in the pudding so to speak and I need to get out and put bullets on targets. Longest range I have available is 200.
Im probably thinking to much into this and truth be told if I need to make longer shots ill be getting out the SPR with a scope on it that I have doped out to 500. But this gun will probably end up being my beater truck gun so I would most likely have this with me vs. any other if I needed to make longer shots.
The RIBZ is the same as the IBZ, but taken a step further. With the regular IBZ, you can get a good 50 yard zero, which will serve you for most purposes, and still be able to use the range markings. When you do the RIBZ for 100, you just slip the elevation drum a few more clicks. If you zero on the 6/3 minus 6 setting, then you should have a passable 100 yd zero and keep all the other markings in tact. I think most people don’t go this route because it can potentially be more confusing.
I guess most people have gone away from the carry handle type sights so a lot arent versed in it.
So with IBZ I will zero at 6/3 -4 at 50 yards which also gives me 200 zero
At 6/3-2 I will be on a 100 zero
at 6/3 I will be on the normal 25/300 zero
At 4 I will be at 400
at 5 I will be at 500
at 6/3 the second time I will be at 600
I cant see myself using anything but the 6/3-4, 6/3-2 and 6/3 markings anyway though so as long as those correspond to 50, 100, 300 like I am thinking, ill be good to go.
I love the RIBZ, and have found it very accurate if using M855.
The only issue is that, with a 20" barrel (as opposed to a Carbine/Midlength), the front sight post needs to be really stretched to get that 100 yard zero.
I’ve used the IBZ on carbines for a long time. Make sure you get a good COLT carry handle with a 2 1/2MOA shift between the small and large apertures and an offset between the apertures to account for the lateral shift when you flip the sight leaves.
6/3-4 for a 50yd zero on the small aperture makes for being somewhat close at 200. I have found that it’s usually low.
Up 4 clicks to 6/3 to use the big aperture at very close range/indoors/night/ and/or with a light.
I like to to do my initial zero at 50, confirm and adjust at 200, and then reconfirm at 50 to see where I’m actually printing. I do fine just remembering that it shoots a little over an inch high at 100yds. It’s not a detriment at all since I’m not a real precise shooter with a roughly 12 1/2MOA front post (I shoot very NTCH).
I have never used the windage knob to dial correction for a shot. Ever.
I like A4 carry handle sights because they give a good sight picture, they’re tough, and I understand 'em fairly well. I can’t recall ever knocking one out of zero.
But it really is a perfect example of gov’t stuff being over-complicated and absurdly impractical. A same plane aperture with a few elevation clicks to you to 500M would be far more practical and easy to use.
OK so with the IBZ, every other marking is meaningless? Then WHY even adjust/modify the wheel. Why not just bottom out the sight(wherever that ends up being), zero at 50 and call it done? Why is there an adjustment(modification?) done to the sight to make the 50 yard zero at 6/3 -4? I have to believe that it makes some of the other marks line up and actually mean something.
Im not opposed to setting up the rear sight for RIBZ(-6 capable), but my ability to zero at 100 yards with irons sucks. Can I still zero at 50 yards using the 6/3 -4 setting?
The reason I am liking the IBZ more than the RIBZ is because I am very use to the ballistics of a 50 yard zero out to 300 yards. Those numbers are in my head. My carry handle is made by who the hell knows who, but its a Palmetto State. Seems to be well built. Its a 6/3 with 4 clicks in between numbers.
So what you are saying is 6/3 -4 and 50 yard zero for small aperture and if I flip to the large aperture go to the 6/3 marks and it will be zero’d there? Does that mean the rest of the marks on the dial are worthless? Im ok with this if it is in fact true(this is what I am trying to ascertain through this thread), I cant see myself shooting more than 200-300 yards with this gun, ever and since I understand with the 50 yard zero I am basically ±1-2" out to 300 yards im comfortable taking shots knowing that at any distance inside there, I will most likely make a hit.
I’m confused. You’ve never had to make a windage adjustment to zero? Have you ever shot to 500 yards with even a moderate wind? Or do you mean your 50/200 zero is pretty stable and doesn’t require a windage adjustment?
Agreed, if I am running irons, I am running the A4 rear sight. I also agree on the Colt carry handle. Even the clicks on my BCM carry handle seemed kind of mushy.
Honestly I’m not sure. The few times I’ve rang steel out to 500yds, I just help over and made my hits since we were doing walk-back drills and I didn’t even think to mess with the sight.
I usually shoot at stray dogs, wild hogs, and coyotes. I honestly don’t really take shots much past 100yds with an AR and irons because they’re just not a very precise thing to shoot and I like to make clean kills.
With the big aperture I can’t hit squat at 100yds, can shoot about 5-6" at 50yds. I really only use the big aperture for around the house distances.
The RIBZ is much more versatile and accurate, no doubt about it. But the IBZ is beneficial for “set it and forget it” use. The reason you move to 6/3-4 is that the 0-2 sight actually changes the elevation of the rear sight, so if you have the rear peep set at 50/200, you will actually be off target if you swap to the 0-2 for faster target acquisition. By moving it to 6/3-4, when you switch to the 0-2 sight you can set the rear sight at 6/3 and still have a 50/200 zero.
What’s wrong with zeroing at 100 yards? Lack of available shooting range? Obviously the best distance to zero a sight at is the actual distance you plan on shooting, but to answer your question Molon has proven in his long RIBZ thread on ARFCOM that if you zero 6/3-4 at 50 yards it will be on target at 100 yards with 6/3-6, and at 300 yards at 6/3, etc.
I have a thread on here where I used the RIBZ on a midlength. I zero’d at 100 yards 6/3-6 and moved it to the 4 and was making hits without any other adjustment using M855 at 400 yards. This was just a few months ago.
The issue with a 50 yard zero isn’t the sights being off, it’s the shooter being off. A small zeroing error at 50 yards will translate to missing the paper completely at 500+
I cant see shit at 100 yards to keep the POA consistent. Its hard to zero when your POA doesnt stay consistent. Its me. I suck at 100 yards with iron sights. Can I make hits, sure, are they precise, nope. At 50 yards I can at least maintain a consistent POA so that I am not chasing my tail when trying to zero iron sights.
Thats why they make runways 2+ miles long, so that those of us with piss poor eye sight can find the damn things and put a large airplane on them!
But really, for me, its the fact that I am a little anal with zeroing and with a fat front sight post(12 MOA) that covers a target at 100 yards, its pretty hard to be “precise” with a .224 diameter bullet. At least at 50 yards I get a fighting chance at holding on the bull. At 100 yards I am good at holding on the target, forget about being on the bull. At least at 50 yards the front sight post is only covering 6" of the target.
I got a buddy who isnt quite as anal as I am. I went with him to the range one day when he was zeroing his new deer rifle. He got 5 rounds on the target at 100 in about a 6-7 MOA “pattern” with a 3-9x scope and said “eh, thats good enough for deer huntinnnn” and packed his shit up. I couldnt settle for something like that, but I also wouldnt settle for a $299 rifle/scope combo from Walmart.
Sorry, I’m on the road and didn’t get to check until now.
As others have said, the markings are not meaningless. The only thing that IBZ and RIBZ does is provide more travel for the rear sight drum. To make this work, you also have to adjust your front sight quite a bit more than most people typically do. If you give it the 6/3 minus 4 and zero at 50 with a set and forget, that’s fine. That leaves you with a good 50 yard zero while leaving the 6/3, 4, and 5 marks all intact and usable. If you give the rear sight the extra two clicks of adjustment to get a 100 yard zero, then you can still use the minus 4 setting for 50, or use the 6/3, 4, and 5.
IBZ/RIBZ came around because people were using the 6/3 setting (or really any other setting) to get a “set and forget” 50/200. This was fine for most practical applications, but made the rest of the markings on the rear drum useless. By giving it the extra travel distance for a 50 or 100 yard zero, you keep your markings in tact and usable for all the other ranges.
I run a BCM carry handle on a BCM 20" government upper. To play with the concept, I zeroed at 50 yards and then used RIBZ to move back and forth from 100 to 25 yards. Adjusting the drum to the correct distance resulted in “good enough” accuracy (more error on my part than the rifle, but still hitting the black of the target)
