Having just gotten my first M4 style gun, I am curious about what different surplus ammo options I have. In particular, I am looking for the best deal on ammo that would work best in my carbine. I have only fired 10 rounds through it so far and am in the process of setting up a range in my backyard and hope to get the shooting bench built today.
I have been picking up whatever various ammo I can find locally at various stores in hopes to test as many kinds as I can, but I am sure many of you have walked to path I am going down and can give me some suggestions.
It is my understanding that the twist in these style carbines range from 1:7 up to 1:12 or more. I also realize barrels go from 14.5-20" which will affect things. Since I have a 16" 1:9 twist I have been lead to believe the best rounds are up towards 68-70gr.
I am familiar with XM193 55gr and XM856 64gr. What other military round is there with a different weight I should consider. I haven’t seen any other surplus options?
I know Black Hills has a lot of grain choices from 60 to 77, but haven’t seen anything over the 64gr XM856 in surplus (cheap) ammo.
IMI M193 always shot the best (often < 2 MOA) of any 55 gr in my 1x9 BM. It’s available from Wideners. Black Hills 68 gr Match was often around MOA. Your 1x9 might not stabilize the 75-77 grain ammo so it might be best to limit it to 69 grains or less.
Thanks… I have an order in for the PRVI 55gr. I see the IMI comes in 55 and 62gr. Wonder if it is the same plant?
Seems those are the two cheapest grain weights to buy in .223 as they are the two military rounds. The XM856 is 64gr, but since it is burning up in flight, I don’t know if it should be consider a 64gr or something less.
I have bought from Wideners so I am familiar with them. I was reading their ad for the PPU75H and they say they think it will work in a 1:9?
The cheapest ammo heavier than 62gr I have found is the 75gr PRVI and the second cheapest and different gr weight is the 68gr Ultramax. Any experience with that brand? They are the only other maker of anything in the 68/69 size other than Black Hills. The cheapest BH 68gr is .72/rd vs. .66 for the Ultramax. Both are half again as much as the 55/62grain stuff.
I am assuming you tried the PMC ammo in comparison to IMI. The PMC is just a couple cents cheaper per round. I bought a 1000rd case and it will be my “break in” ammo and will be used for all my rough sighting in until I get it nailed down. At that point I will begin shooting a variety of ammo to compare accuracy by round.
I have or have on order 12 different brands/grain weights for testing, at least 40rds of each.
I’ve never shot PMC in .223 and have no reason to try it. Privi 75 grain shoots good in my 1x7 twist. As mentioned the best bet (based on my experience) for match grade ammo in a 1x9 is BH 68 grain.
I think the reason to try PMC is price. It is my intent to do two kinds of shooting. For fun and for accuracy. When I am blowing up gallon jugs filled with water, shooting tin cans, or whatever, I want good ammo, but don’t need sub-MOA. Since you indicated you used the IMI ammo, the second cheapest I have found, I am curious you didn’t go a step further and test other lower cost ammo.
Guess you didn’t try the Ultramax 68gr, the “other” South Dakota ammo
“minute of pie plate” think you have been watching me shoot.
Yesterday I measured a 100 yards to determine where to put my new shooting bench. I could barely see the target stands, never the less a target. I haven’t fired my first sight in shot yet. I shot 10 rounds into a pistol target 20’ away and that is it with this carbine. Same with my new handgun…10 rounds into a target 20’ away…no challenge for me or the guns…
Have a new scope arrving tomorrow, but the mount hasn’t even thought about shipping yet.
First, I think the PMC you are looking at is a .223 load, while IMI is loaded to M193 5.56 NATO specs, which should be hotter. For plinking, general range work, and all around fun, I normally shoot XM or M193. The M856 you mentioned is actually the current tracer round, and is equivelant to SS109 M855, which is 62gr FMJ with a steel penetrator core. The steel cores tend to not be perfectly centered, leading to bullets occasionally yawing. I would go with IMI M193 for your mil-surplus round. I just picked up a 1200rd case of it. I also have lots of Privi and Federal Lake City 193. I also have some Privi M855, along with a bunch of hunting and home defense rounds.
Second, as mentioned, your 1:9 might not handle anything much above 69gr. If you are going to try one of the heavier rounds like 5.56 75gr TAP (my prefered home defense round,) or any of the 77gr match rounds, buy a small quantity first, to see if your rifle can handle them.
Yes, the PMC is .223 and is only 3200fps vs. ? for the XM855. I wrote to Federal seeking a spec sheet for the XM855 and didn’t hear back from them. The XM856 is 3325, a little hotter, but am not sure how the tracer round will behave. Yes, I knew it was tracer which I got to shoot for fun. I grew up within eye sight of a Army range and got to see a lot of late night “fireworks”.
1-in-14" 55gr or less
1-in-12" 35gr up to 55-60gr
1-in-9" 45gr-75gr, possibly up to 77 if you’re lucky
1-in-8", 1-in-7" 45gr - 80+gr
It seems weird that a 1:7 could go down to 45, as low as a 1:9? I am curious if I can get up to 77
A lot of people seem to like the Hornaday TAP FPD but PRVI has 75gr for less than half the cost. Would the ballistics of the Hornady be much different that the PRVI of the same grain weight? I can get the PRVI 75gr JHP for $.42 vs. $1.00 for the Hornady.
As far as cheaper ammo goes, if the XM855/856 has issues due to the core, it seems there is quite a gap between all the 55gr ammo and the 75gr PRVI. Does the PRVI 62gr also have the steel core? They call it match ammo and at .39 is only a penny more than the $.38 IMI? I realize the IMI is 5.56 and the PRVI is .223. I don’t have FPS for either one of them at this time.
How much does the chrome barrel have to do with grain weights? Does it tend to make the barrel better or worse for handling heavier weights?
Just discovered BVAC. They have a .223 Remington, Sierra 69 Grain HPBT Matchking at $.53/round in quantities of 20. Used brass, but what the heck. If 68/69gr is the “sweet spot” for a 1:9 barrel, then this might be the best bang for the buck in that grain weight. Got great reviews on the CTD site. I discovered this round on the Ammo Engine list. Great site for finding pricing. Don’t know how well the list is kept up, but a great reference.
That chart seems to be about right. I have a 1:7 LMT and have shot Rem 45gr varmint loads out to 100yds with no problem, although once I shot through the box, the lightest rounds I currently have are some Win 50gr silvertips. As far as the M856 tracer, from what I read under “M16 Rifle, Nato Standards” on Wikipedia, one of the reasons for going to 1:7 for the M16A2 was to stabilize the M856/L110 tracer round, which is longer than the M855/SS109 round it augments. Also, from Wideners ammo section, they list Privi and Lake City M855 as being in the mid 3100fps range.
I’m not sure how the Privi 75gr equates to TAP. I do know that I have seen it compared to the SpecOps Mk262 round that is prefered over M855 in the sandbox, so you probably can’t go wrong with it, assuming your barrel will handle it. I have heard it mentioned as cheap practice round to simulate TAP. BTW - The TAP I have stored away and in my HD mags is the 5.56 75gr T2 TAP, which is supposedly hotter and with a better bullet design. It only shows up occasionally on Ammunitiontogo.com or G&R Tactical at about $1.00-1.10 per round.
As far as I could tell, looking at the various ammo sites I use, Privi has both 62gr steel core M855 and 62gr FMJBT ammo. This is a quote off of Wideners. “This ammo is a great substitute for SS109 if you need a heavy bullet without the steel.” Also filling that gap, I have some Silver State Armory (SSA) 5.56 63gr Sierra Soft Points, as a larger hunting/varmint round. They claim 2,780fps from a 16" barrel 1-7 twist. It runs about $.88 per round.
I don’t know about the chrome lining, but all the top mil-spec type (as oppose to SS barrelled target/varmint) rifles are chrome lined.
Thanks for the info on the lighter loads. I was checking out a cartridge yesterday that was in the high 70’s and it said a 1:9 can possibly handle up to a 79gr. Will be anxious to get my scope and start testing various weights.
Since the 75gr PRVI is the only “common” (cheaper) round of a higher grain weight, I hope I am able to shoot it. I don’t have any yet, but will have to get some to test shoot with.
I saw some negative reviews of the SSA ammo. Seems you have been happy with it?
All the Federal rounds should be fine in any carbine. My WalMart doesn’t have that round. I have never seen such a cheap price anywhere for .223 other than the Russian steel cased rounds. Have seen them as cheap as $.14 for Tula or something.
When I last stopped by Wally World they only had three boxes of .223. They were Remington/UMC. Two different grain weights. I bought a box of each leaving only a single box on the shelf.
