Am I “thinking” right b4 I buy an $$$ AR?

AR/M4 AR General Discussion
1

Is my “thinking” correct before I buy a high dollar AR…?

I have finally sold my lower tier AR’s, saved my coins, and now I want to purchase two new AR’s. Two because “one is none and two is one”. My wife took the phrase to heart, so I’ve got to move quick! I want an AR for home defense, SHTF, attending a Carbine Class, just general shooting and plinking.

I have been shooting my whole-life but only messing with AR’s just over a year. I have bought 5 AR’s in the past year and as I learned what makes a good one, I’ve sold them off one at a time. Sold the last one Sunday.

I managed to shoot about 1000 rounds through my AR’s in the past year. So, only shooting a 1000 AR rounds, I’m far from an expert but I have studied (not just read) on the internet, manuals, CD’s and talked to countless people trying to triangulate my “thinkings” into some halfway intelligent non-kool-aid drinking thoughts.

I am certain I can use some enlightenment, so please feel free. I intermix the words I “think” and I “want” but they are just both my opinion, so, let me know if my “thinkings” are somewhat on the right track…be gentle…

For a civilian, I think an AR is really a 200-yard (or less) range weapon. I shouldn’t be in a situation where I’ll be shooting everything that moves out to 500-yards but I could be in a situation where I have select targets at 100-yards in my neighborhood…like say, a pack of rabid coyotes??

An AR should be light and easily handled. It should be extremely reliable and be made of the best components available. You should be able to shoot it with open sights off-hand at man sized targets at 50-75 yards and supported out to 150-200 yards. It should not bother you to scratch it.

I want a mid-length rifle because of the better sight radius, longer grip, less violent recoil, and less stressed parts. An AR should be Direct Impingement because that was how it was designed, not a jury rigged piston gun.

I want a Fixed Front Sight because it is less likely to be damaged. Any optics on my AR will be at least a 1X, possibly more in a variable scope but at least a 1X on the low end.

I want a 16” barrel with a standard profile (no HBAR) to keep it light. A 16” minimum because I do not want the Flash Hider welded on in case I ever want to change the fore-end, front sight, etc. Chrome-lined and MP tested parts where practical with a Vortex flash hider. No match or adjustable trigger.

For a handguard, I am not sure if I want a free-float quad rail handguard for accuracy, light attachment, versatile sling attachment points, etc. or just a basic plastic double-insulated handguard because it is lighter, easily removed to clean under the fore-end, and it is cheaper! Leaning towards a free-float quad rail fore-end.

It is difficult to pick a brand that I can confidently give $3000+. I’ve had enough Buyer’s Remorse with AR’s already, I intend to be very prejudiced on the brand I select next. I want a company that has a good track record of AR customer service. I think the best popular brands are: Bravo Company, Colt, Daniel Defense, Lewis Machine, and Noveske. My “thinkings” on each maker are: Bravo Company–never heard anything bad, just not sure, they seem new to making AR’s. Not sure about the CS; Colt–they don’t like civilians(I’m a civilian); LMT–heard (and read) they’re using MIM parts but their stuff is supposed to be good; Daniel Defense – never heard anything bad, they seem new to making AR’s, no history of CS; Noveske–never heard a derogatory word except price and they have a good CS track record. My preference at this point is Noveske, Daniel Defense, LMT, and Bravo Company (no Colt).

So, right now, I’m leaning heavily towards Noveske N4 Light Recce FSR 16" but I could comfortably buy the N4 Light Recce Basic 16" with it plastic handguard and $500 less price tag.

Well, this is way harder than it should be but I’m trying. If you thnk this is bad, you ought to see me buy a car… : )

I appreciate any help, advice, recommendations, criticism, ridicule, etc…
Thanks,
Frank

2

I’d get BCM 16" midlength models, ammo, and a training class.

A white light w/mount, 2 pt. vtac/vcas sling, and an aimpoint are other essentials that should be on the shopping list.

3

I love my Noveske:D

4

I’d get the Noveske now Recce now, and then you get the free stripped lower. Then buy a BCM or DD upper (or even another Noveske upper and you’d have ANOTHER lower) to put on that lower. There’s your 2.

5

Why is LaRue not on your list?:confused:

Can you share some of your buyers remorse w/ those of us who would like to learn from your decisions/mistakes.:wink:

I ask as I’m in a similar situation and appreciate the work you have already done for me.:smiley:

6

What about BushMaster?..Just Kidding;)
+1 to what Mung said

7

I am in a very similar situation as yourself. I have narrowed it down to a midlength BCM or DD. I am waiting on DD to start shipping their midlengths! I think when it comes strictly to value DD wins out, followed closely by the BCM. Noveske sounds great but for the money they are asking I can buy quite a few accessories! Just my thoughts!

Chad

8

You sure you want to rule out Colt? I’m no cool-aid drinker, but some of the prices I’ve read about lately are tough to beat. I’ve seen $1099.00 several times and even a $1050.00 or two. Letting go of prejudice and bias, dollar for dollar, I’m not sure you can beat a Colt right now. Just thinking out loud though…

9

I would recommend something with a midlength gas system.

10

DD rifle and a BCM lower to build on for rainy days…

Scott (the plebe)

11

Get the Noveske N4 basic and throw on a DD Omega 9 which runs <$300. Then you have a free floated quad rail that installs in less then 5 minutes, can be changed back to the original config if you want, and you still have your fixed FS and your still $200 cheaper than the N4 FSR.

12

Thanks Gewehr. The Noveske Recce is a mid-length 16". I’ve been picking ammo up for years, and I intend to take a class in the Fall. I just (yesterday) got a TNVC Q5 Cree Drop-In for my SureFire 6P and I am impressed. I called the Sheriff last night because of a couple of peddlers knocking on doors at 9:00PM and the deputy and I were comparing flashlights in my front yard. He took down all the info so he could get one. He was using a Streamlight Stinger, if I remember. The Streamlight was brighter by a little but it was 3 times bigger than the 6P w/ Q5.

After I get my rifle, I’ll probably get either a Vltor or Vtac light mount.

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Thanks, Colo.TJ.
Most of my Buyers Remorse was self inflicted because of ingnorance. I bought 5 AR’s and only shot 2 of them. The more I read and studied, the more I learned about what really mattered in an AR and how some companies make guns that look, sound, and feel like AR’s but they ain’t.
1st was a DPMS w/ a .223 Rem chamber and no FH. Unaware I shouldn’t shoot 5.56 in a 223 when Ibought it. Also, I found out real quick why FH are necessary equipment. It’s like someone popping a firecracker in your face. Sold it after a month.
2nd was a Bushmaster & 3rd was a RRA. Sold them both after a few months without shooting them when I found out their quality was lower tier.
4th was an ArmaLite w/ a SS match barrel and match trigger. Shot it about 1000 rounds. But it was heavy, non-standard crabon fiber fore-end, and a fixed stock. So-so accuracy until 300+ shots and then suddenly-bam! it became very accurate, guess it has to break-in. It was not very flexible and heavy. Sold it after a year.
5th was Yankee Hill. I liked it the best but I sold it to my brother without shooting it. Of the 5 I bought, the YHM was the best even though it is not on the “Chart”. My brother loves it.
5.5th was a SIG 556 Classic SWAT. The gun shot fine for the 20 or so shots I shot in it but I could not stand it. Parts are expensive, flat-top rail was out of spec, quad rail was not free-float, stock must have been made by Mattel, so heavy, etc. Not worth the money. Sold it after 6-months - very hard to sell!

That about explains my AR history.

14

It sounds like you’ve been doing your research and know what constitutes a quality AR. Any Noveske that you’re interested in will no doubt be a superb rifle.

If you’re concerned about Bravo Company’s customer service – don’t be. I contacted Paul with a minor issue I had with my upper and he responded very promptly and covered the cost of shipping my upper back for repair. I was very thoroughly impressed, but I can’t speak for the other companies.

If you really like the Noveske then you should get it, otherwise my vote would definitely be for BCM.

15

Sounds like you’ve done your research and homework. Any of those you list have impeccable reputations. Let us know what you decide…

16

Get just one -any of the several top tiers mentioned on this forum - and shoot it a bunch - then get another. Find out what ammo it likes and put several years worth in inventory while we are in this “lull”.

A fixed FSB is a very good idea from a practical standpoint, (and the way my recent buy/build Noveske mid-length is configured). FWIW, I’ve burned 750 rounds over the last month just trying different optics and ammo in the N4 - and I’m very low speed, high drag. :stuck_out_tongue:

Shoot it, take a class, enter local competitive matches - whatever works, but you won’t improve your proficiency much at only 1k rounds per year.

Get two (or more) good optics - one a red dot and one a variable or low fixed power and play with both, as well as the irons. The red dot (Aimpoint) is great for home defense/CQB and will work out to 300M on reasonable sized targets (for me, anyway). BTW,1X means no magnification - like an Aimpoint ML3, etc., or 1.0 x 4 power scope.

My $.02.

17

Hey LMT42.
Just guess it is my age. I find myself to be less tolerant on important issues. I don’t hate Colt and I don’t hate Ruger but both of them backstabbed gun owners years ago. Now that Colt’s government contracts are finished, they realized there is money to be made from those stupid civilians, so they jump to give us what we want…too late! I guess since Bill Ruger died, times got a little hard, so they’re trying to increase their market share by catering to the “high capacity” crowd he backstabbed years ago.

I feel the same way about Bass Pro Shops. I live near a Cabelas and a Bass Pro. Cabelas handles those nasty “black guns”. Bass Pro sells hunting guns but they don’t want to be associated with “black guns”, so they don’t handle them. Call them and they’ll say they don’t handle those “type” of guns or they only handle sport guns. Heck with Bass Pro.

I think we need to less tolerant when we are slighted but as a whole, we’re not.

So, Colt can just keep their .154"/.170" FCG’s and their LE/Military Only marked guns.
But maybe that’s just me…

18

So, Colt can just keep their .154"/.170" FCG’s and their LE/Military Only marked guns.
But maybe that’s just me…

You are not alone. It was deja vu all over again when I found out I can’t run a standard carrier in my two oldies.

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Thanks for the suggestion. Actually, 9mm4me, I’ve thought about doing just that but I haven’t read of anyone that has really used and abused the Omega to know for sure. From what I’ve read the Noveske (SWS) rail is an extremely rigid handguard but it is a little heavy because of the proprietory barrel nut (but a wrench is available).

I tried to find some details of the Omega online but only saw pictures from a distance.

9mm4mee, have you tried and used the DD Omega? Is it a rigid solid fit or is it some kind of friction (clamp) fit?

20

I would Go Daniel Defense (once they release) Mid Length, or BCM. Both come with CHF barrels and are very well priced. The BCM as a complete rifle is only available through G&R $1134.00 (as far as I have found) otherwise you would have to buy an upper, and lower seperately. Noveske is awsome, more expensive than the complete BCM middy through G&R though at $1480. Those would be my choices.

  1. BCM
  2. Noveske / Daniel Defense