You’re right. After I listened to it at full volume a couple of times I can tell a difference between the voice of the guy coming up the hill and the “boo-ya” guy. I’ll eat crow on the hillbilly boo-ya comment.
Still not sure why an escalation to deadly force was needed. They had bean bags, and a K9. It’s kind of odd that they went lethal force then tried the less than lethal.
Also not entirely sure why the K9 handler went after the dog before the suspect became compliant or was down and placed himself at risk. Isn’t that the whole pointing the K9??
That looks bad. And on watching it a 2nd time, it looks really, really bad. It looks like murder.
I can’t understand why they didn’t just keep cracking that guy with bean bags until he submitted. It’s like everyone was gripped with fear, and had no confidence they could handle the situation without instantly going to lethal force.
And yeah, the camera guy is waaaaaay too kitted-up.
Sounds like a problem officer. While I don’t think it speaks to premeditation it was way out of line. You can joke all you want just remember you may be accountable for those words later. I think we can all agree we are glad that cameras don’t catch every last off color comment we make throughout the day.
What Law Enforcement background do you have to show use of force training and what experience do you have to speak to what is “needed” on a call such as this?
I personally do not agree with how this situation was handled but I’m getting tired of the “kitted-up” crowd.
While you’re at it, tell that to all the of the dumppouchshemaghtacticalkneepadmulticam wearing crowd that enjoy posting selfies in the above linked thread.
Because in both situations (incident in OP and above linked thread), the people look like clowns.
All of this talk about being “kitted-up” is pretty sad. So people want to wear kit, what’s the issue?
Are we going to piss on guys for having pick up trucks because they are lacking? How about guys who carry more than one magazine - not to rehash the convo just pointing out the obvious misconceptions.
If cops are not supposed to wear “kit” … who is exactly?
Everybody knows that all you need to take a carbine course is a carbine and a spare magazine shoved in the back pocket of your bluejeans. Anything more than that is totally unneeded and only proves a sociopathic, militant mindset in which the individual is clearly just begging for an opportunity to kill.
:sarcastic:
Tactical YouTube celebrities. And bonafide Tier 1 Operators.
You’re welcome. His statement just prior to the incident is what set the ball rolling with quite a few people. I also don’t think his comment wouldn’t have been an issue if it hadn’t actually occurred either. We all say shit off the cuff.
I’ve done exactly that just for s’n’g’s. It was actually lots of fun! And much more difficult than running with even little things like mags on the belt.
I believe the “kit” is important because it should be in proportion to the the expected threat and the job at hand - and so it does reflect mindset and expectations…
If you disagree, please tell me why all patrol LEO aren’t going around wearing rifle plates and approaching every traffic stop all super tactical and armed with carbines that they carry in many cruisers… It would be a safer SOP wouldn’t it - just in case something really bad happened… Right?
But we know why that isn’t the case, because it would be overkill and out of proportion to the job at hand… Not everything is a darn SWAT situation! sometimes it really just is getting a crazy dude to walk off of a hill…
But if the responding non kitted out patrol officers were threatened by the crazy dude on the hill then its no longer a get the crazy dude off the hill. Its now arrest crazy dude on the hill.
Spoken like someone who has not worn kit for hours each day for years.
I have, it sucks and I would not want to do it. LEO kit is based on public perception and comfort nothing more. Seeing an officer wewring full kit constantly will make you wonder if its safe to go outside. It will also tire that officer out extremely quick.
Point is, crazy dude on a hill can turn into anything very quickly. Does he have a gun? How sure do you want to be? Would you risk your life on it by coming under prepared?
That whole argument is weak, if you call policdwork dangerous work then you should not be surprised when LEO show up to the party looking like they just came out of the teams. You cant have your cake and eat it too with this argument.
Voodo, you are making my argument for me by saying full kit would be unnecessary and a PITA for a regular LEO to use all the time. People put on full gear and sling a carbine when the threat level is higher. My argument is all about proportion and mindset. As you said Wearing full kit conveys danger and higher threat posture.
The voice recording of one of the LE guys before the event who shot also backs up my argument, he was ready and eager to shoot the crazy guy… He was visualizing something big and he got it.
And then back to the general theme…
I think this one specific event was a bad shooting, and it was created by some missteps and aggressive mindset of the few of the LE guys involved… That’s OK, nobody is perfect… This is kind of a reverse of the Mike Brown shooting, where the death was caused by a few missteps and aggressive mindset on the part of Mike Brown… It’s no more so condemnation of all LE, then is holding mike brown accountable is so condemnation of all young black men…
Insisting that the LE guys did nothing wrong here to escalate the situation Is like being one of mike browns relatives and screaming “my baby dindo nuffin wrong”
I can see the point you are making (on both ends) and I do agree, only in part.
Having personal experience with similar circumstances I can say that you get in the mindset, sort of like psyching yourself and your team up before a football game; you want people to be in that specific mindset, one which is extremely important in a life or death interaction, which this was.
These guys jock’in up and talking the talk is no different, they were getting ready to get into a physical confrontation with someone who would only respond to violent confrontation; remember they were there for hours before this happened trying to talk him down until he displayed blades in an aggressive manner.
Lastly, if you look at the video, without knowing anything else other than what you are given visually, then sure it is most definitely not a good shoot, but it is not a bad shoot in that it would warrant murder charges against the officers.
Did you read what lead up to it? Did you read about how long everything took to develop? This was not a first officer on scene was in full kit an shot the dude because he was crazy and no other reason type of situation we see sometimes occur. They tried to talk him down, they tried less than lethal, they did all that. The police are not paid to give up and just allow people to do whatever they want, that guy was getting arrested one way or another and they exhausted their use of force pyramid up until the end.
Comparing this situation to Ferguson and that POS that attacked the officer is like comparing apples to oranges. The only thing similar is the fact the police used deadly force.