How do AKs in these calibers stack up against ARs (5.56) and other AKs (7.62) ? Thanks.
Offhand inside 150 yards you get about the same results. AR iron sights are better the longer you stretch your rifle. Optical sights are an equalizer especially for the AK.
What kind of accuracy are you looking/hoping for?
What I have found on a bench with my SLR105 with a P03.5X21 optic is that with Silver Bear on a 5 shot group at 100 yards is that 4 shots will ususally be within 1.25 inches but there will be a flyer that will bring the group to about 2.5-3 inches. Wolf 60gr is similar but the flyers are more frequent and push the group to about 4-5 inches. Polish military surplus is usually about 2.5-3 inches but does not show single flyers. My AR with match ammo usually benches about 1 inch at 100 yards. Keep in mind this is off a bench and when I am not on a bench I usually do not see as much difference.
Also keep in mind that there is no “match” ammo for AK’s. Even the US stuff is not that great for AK’s.
Both my SLR 105R and my SGL 31 from Arsenal will shoot 5 shot groups under 2" with Primary Arms micros and Ultimak rails. The SGL really got “better” after the sight and rail, the Bulgarian SLR was always the most accurate AK I have fired in any caliber.
I use 70 grain Wolf in both and have also tried out the new Hornady V-Max load and it shoots very well.
At 50 yards I shoot into a 2" black square for all my red dots and both rifles will keep 10 round groups into this square all day long, I have shot 20 round groups occaisionally that will stay into the square.
At 100 shooting open sights and red dots without any magnification gets a bit more challenging by the design of the rifle and trigger pull.
I usually shoot 20 shot groups at all ranges with all my rifles, but have shot some 5 and 10 rounders as well with these guns.
The SLR 105 shot a 5 shot best open sights before the red dot of 1.25" with factory Wolf 70 grain from ULY plant. I probably can’t do this all day long with it but it shoots a whole box of 25 with the red dot into 3" all day long. It has a better trigger than the SGL and I think this helps as well.
7.62 guns will rarely shoot better than 2.5-3" at 100. I have tried Arsenal USA, Romanian, Arsenal Russian and Bulgarian AK’s and the best I could do was about 3" for 100 yards and 10 shots.
The 5.45 to me is a fun, accurate AK round and I have sold off the 7.62’s.
Sorry no experience with .223 AK’s, unless you count the Galil:D Got 2 of them
BullittBoy - easy bro! You’re making me wish I “jumped the fence” to 5.45!!!
The 5.45 is pretty addictive. At least as cheap as 7.62x39, and with considerably better accuracy. My KTR-09 in 5.45 outshoots most of my ARs.
I hear you.
Reason I did not was ‘fear’ that the USG could/would turn off the pipe of 5.45 PDQ someday.
So… there may be merit for 5.56 AK - very reliable (not QUITE as good as 5.45 according to Larry Vickers), but accurate at range.
I guess that 7.62 is fine, maybe better out to 50-100 m, depending on shooter. What are reasons for 7.62 not having the accuracy - barrel stiffness? I suppose 5.45 is built with same “Warsaw Pact” tolerances.
BTW - you can personally thank me for the cheap 5.45. If I had bought that Arsenal a few years ago, prices on ammo would have doubled, and the ammo would now be unavailable - as it was, I ‘saved’ you from high prices by my decision. At least it ‘feels’ that way. LOL.
Hornady is making steel cased 60gr VMAX in 5.45x39mm I’d love to see what this stuff can do.
They’re supposed to make a 7.62x39 VMAX round too but it hasn’t been released yet.
The Hornady 7.62 is out and actually came out first.
I got 2 boxes of the 5.45.
I have shot a 10 round group out of both the SLR105 and the SGL31 at 50 yards and I shot a 10 round group out of the SGL at 100.
The SLR shoots it dead even with my 70 grain Wolf zero and I got 7 rounds into an inch at 50 with the other 3 right around it so the total group was about 2". I shot this after I had been shooting for awhile and may have been a bit fatigued. I need to shoot another group at 100 as welll with this gun, but at 50 yards whatever I shoot at is gonna get hit.
The SGL shoots a tad right at 50 with the V-Max and accuracy was very similar to the SLR, 10 rounds into about 2" with 6 or 7 into an inch so both guns are capable of good accuracy. I shot it at 100 and I got 7 rounds into 2" with a couple fliers that opened it up to 3" but honestly that maybe me and it was almost dark at the range. It definately shoots about 2-3" right at 100, at 50 about 1" right.
Bottom line is the round has great potential as at least someone has made a premium round for this caliber.
I have been very impressed with what my 5.56 Saiga will do with 69gr OTM. I almost hate shooting ammo like this through this rifle, but with a KVAR 20 round magazine, the cheesy side rail scope mount, and a borrowed 10x SS scope I did bench the gun once out of curiosity.
I wasn’t expecting much, but I was pleasantly surprised with the accuracy. The gun will hold an honest 2 MOA with 10 rounds at 100 yards with the brake and cleaning rod still attached. Removing these would probably help accuracy a little, but I was pleased to see that the Saiga had more than acceptable combat accuracy. Seems the Russians can make a pretty damn decent CHF barrel.
I think a lot of the AK’s reputation for inaccuracy comes from three factors: horrible sights, the 7.62x39 round itself, and often poor workmanship.
Optics, aftermarket sights, and different chamberings can negate the first two. The poor workmanship of many of the AKs imported into the U.S. or built here hurt the perception of the rifle’s accuracy potential a lot. I find it to be a testament to the design of the rifle that even with shitty craftsmanship, they’re generally pretty reliable guns, even if not accurate guns.
Agree, but would add:
I would suppose that the 5.45 and 7.62 guns are equal in terms of build quality for Arsenal, etc., and it seems that 5.45 is still more accurate. Also, they have the same “tolerances” used for max reliability in true AK style. So what makes them more accurate? I would guess that barrel stiffness/weight makes a difference. I’ve heard this about 5.56 Norincos back in the day before 5.45 Eastern Bloc guns came over here.
I know my Yugo (CAI) [heavier barrel] for now bests my SA 85 and SAR-1, which are both “factory” EB guns. Of course its best to compare apples to apples, so I defer to folks with BOTH in Arsenal, etc.
It does seem attractive to me to have a 5.56 AK. If the accuracy is close to an AR, I would think you would have better durability and reliability, ease of maintenance, and the ability to shoot steel cased ammo without any ‘extra care’. Of course, there is a host of reasons to have an AR (adaptability, uppers, accessories, ergos, etc.). But an accurate AK, with a 74 muzzle break OTB is nice.