I am going to Vegas this weekend with the wife, and Im considering bringing along my Kahr PM9 in my luggage for the trip. When I travel in CONUS I usually drive, so I have not yet taken a handgun with me on a flight.
I am a full-time LEO so the applicable CCW laws in NV are not a concern for me, but if you guys have info that you feel may benefit civilian air travelers on this subject, feel free to post it here in this thread as well.
Any tips you can offer on the safest, most effiecient way to do so are greatly appreciated.
More specifically:
*What type/brand of lock-box is most secure for packing a handgun in your luggage?
*What is the best way to secure your ammo in your luggage?
As far as the lock box goes, I use pelican cases with the double pad lock holes. That way someone can’t pry up one side of your case to get to the pistol. I can’t remember what model number I have but it can easily carry two full size hand guns and about 6 spare mags. As for the ammo, in the past I just packed it well in my checked baggage.
One thing to make sure of: check the policies of the airline you will be flying on. They don’t all have the same rules/regs concerning firearms.
Double check with your air carrier and then figure in an extra hour of time with the TSA gun checking morons.
I usually fly armed because it’s work related but last summer flew back from Denver after a varmint hunting trip. What a circus of idiocy at the airport.
I packed the ammo separately in checked luggage. Pretty sure they’ll have a cow if they look in your carry on and there’s live ammo in it.
Nick,
The factory ammo box (flimsy as it is) may be required for transport of ammo despite what any other TSA/airline guidance may say. The guy at the ticket counter is the final word on this - and that will vary from one minute to the next. Do not believe it when you read that a firearm magazine is an acceptable storage container. (Ask me how I know.)
I used a pelican case with a TSA-approve lock.
Flying is a PITA. Flying with a firearm can be a HUGE PITA. Good luck. (Take a valium before you leave for the airport.)
I use Hardigg Storm Cases and Master Lock padlocks. The locks on your gun case do not need to be “TSA approved” and I never use the cheesy “TSA approved” travel padlocks.
I use MTM hard plastic ammo boxes to transport ammo. Factory packaging has a tendency to get crushed, which can result in ammo being scattered throughout your bag.
I lock the gun(s) and magazines in the Storm Case(s). The ammo goes in the MTM boxes, which go in the checked bag along with the Storm Case(s). I use heavy duty Zip-Lock bags to keep other accessories organized - holsters, pouches, etc.
I recommend using hardsided luggage when transporting handguns. I like Samsonite, personally. The hardsided luggage adds another layer of security and protection for your gear.
I’d say that’s a bit extreme just for declaring a handgun in ones checked baggage. I’ve never been held up for more than about 10 minutes while the TSA x-rayed my luggage. If you’re traveling in a group and have a lot of gear, add more time but, as an individual traveler, I say nah.
If there’s a separate x-ray station (which there are at some airports) and there’s a pile of baggage there, I simply tell one of the TSA screeners that I have a firearm in the bag and ask if they’d mind going ahead and x-ray it while I’m standing there so that I can go on to my departure gate. To date, they’ve always taken my bag to the front of the line and run it through while I wait. Here’s the trick: be polite and smile.
It’s a safe bet to say that the TSA wonks at the checkpoint would be frowny-faced over that. They get worked up over hand lotion and toothpaste – can you imagine it if they found a box of ammo?
I’ve never had an issue with using MTM ammo boxes (see above).
I’m sure that’s not very encouraging to Nick…
Flying commercial with a firearm in checked baggage is not that big a deal. It’s certainly no more of a chore than dealing with the rest of the asshattery that goes along with air travel in the U.S. nowadays. Keeping up with what are the prohibited items du jour in your carry-on and what does/does not go on the conveyor belt at the x-ray is more of a headache than declaring a firearm in a checked bag. Know the rules, have your gear properly stored, and things will go just fine.
A few tips:
Some ticket/counter agents may, others may not, ask you to show that the firearms(s) is/are unloaded. A press check/open cylinder where they can see into the chamber will suffice. If they say something like “I need to check to be sure it’s unloaded”, the interpretation is the same. I never let a ticket/counter agent handle my firearms.
There is an ongoing debate as to whether the firearms declaration tag goes in the gun case or if it goes in the checked bag, but outside the gun case. I usually place it in the checked bag, on top of my clothes, etc. where it can be seen as soon as someone opens the suitcase. However, if an enthusiastic ticket/counter agent says that it must go inside the gun case, I ask “are you sure?”. If they say they are sure, I don’t bother arguing with them. Just take the extra 15 seconds to put the tag inside the gun case. If your gun case is a separate piece of checked baggage, then the tag obviously has to go inside the case.
Double check that your gun case and luggage are locked before letting the ticket/counter agent take it. It can be easy to forget this in the shuffle at the counter, especially if you’re in a hurry or prone to stress out at the airport.
I’ve frequented two airlines in my travels with firearms, Southwest and United. Southwest is by far the easiest to deal with when it comes to guns, so I fly them whenever I can. I always put the weapons in a separate pelican case with some sturdy TSA locks I found (Denver TSA cut my masterlocks to “inspect” my case once). Sometimes I throw empty mags, holsters, or other gear if I’m trying to save weight in my other bag (usually I fly with rifles and handguns). My other bag typically holds my armor and other gear. The carry on is stuffed with clothes and whatever else I can carry to save weight (armor is heavy!!!). I usually throw HP ammo in a kifaru pull out still in the mags. I’ve also used a smaller pelican handgun case inside my gear bag to hold loaded mags to further ease the TSA (though I always tend to end up with the “you won a free inspection” tag inside my gear bag…)
I type this waiting for a plane now. This is a quick business trip so I only few with 2 handguns in the pelican handgun case and the ammo in the mags in a kifaru pouch in my other checked bag. They only care that there is no loose ammo, and if you put ammo in the same case as the guns, it cannot be in mags! Also, you are limited to 11lbs. of ammo, which is about 350 rnds of 5.56 and 100-200rnds of 9mm
I have flown often with a gun or two. I use the same locking case that I keep under my seat in my truck. http://www.center-of-mass.com/Store_InCarGunSafe.htm for my pistols and I often use a similar case (found at WW and has a smaller foot print but is deeper) for my ammo just to keep everyone at ease.
I do not allow much extra time but it does take a few minutes longer to escort my bag to TSA and allow them time for inspection.
I have not had to show my gun to be unloaded anytime recently but have done so in the past. It seems like they may have learned it is more safe to just lock it up than to require folks to manipulate their weapons for counter agents who would barely know which end the round might come out.
Fill out the red card, place it in your luggage (some want it in the gun case others only want it in the bag. escort your bag to TSA, unlock and wait for your keys to be returned. Fly to your destination.
I fly out of Chicago (land of the oppressed) and into Denver and Atlanta for the most part. Never had a problem.
I flew from Denver to Houston last month on frontier & didn’t have any issues. Both ticket agents took my word that the guns were unloaded & I only had a couple factory boxes of ammo.
I used a Pelican case inside my suitcase for the weapons & ammo & carried on my eye & ear pro with no issues.
On both flights I was delayed at most 10 minutes waiting for the X-Ray.
I’ve flown out of Vegas a few times with a handgun, its never been a hassle. Last time the first ticket agent must have never seen a gun before, because she didn’t seem to know what to do, but the other agent stepped in quickly and handled it with no problem. I just kept the magwell empty and the slide locked back in the case. As for ammo I never flew with it, just picked some up when I got there or kept it stored at the location I was heading to (parents). If you decide to fly without ammo there is a gun shop right up the street from the airport.
Plastic case w/ locks, 2-4 handguns inside.
100-200 rounds of ammo in mags in pouches, hard plastic ammo case for backup.
Extra declaration tag for any agent that thinks the tag goes inside the case.
Copy of regs in my carry-on.
In the event of problem, be nice, don’t argue, ask for a supervisor.
I fly mostly United/Skywest and NWA/Mesaba. No problems.
There are several other threads about flying with firearms worth reading, too.
This is my experience after about 30 or so flights over the last two years with a gun.
I use a generic plastic case capable of being locked with a padlock. Originally I was using a metal case, but finally realized that it apparently throws off the x-ray machine or whatever they use as I would always have to open up the case for TSA’s viewing pleasure. Plastic case switch was implemented and haven’t had to open the case since.
The plastic case I have has foam in it. I place my loaded magazines and my knife under the foam, and the empty gun on top. When I arrive at the counter, I declare the firearm, sign the orange gun tag thing, and place it in the case on top of the gun, while showing the ticket agent (who for the most part don’t give it much notice) that the gun is empty. I don’t say shit about the ammo being in mags below the foam. I then lock the case with the padlock, and then run a cable lock through the handle of the case and around one of the internal rails in my luggage bag. Anyone with time can defeat the case and/or the cable lock, but it’ll take time and I’m hedging my bets that these days they just don’t have a lot of time to go through that ass pain.
Trot the whole thing over to the security dudes and stand there while they scan it. Since moving to the plastic case, I have not been asked to open the bag and usually get a thumbs up that I’m good to go.
The only time I’ve had an issue with TSA was leaving Orlando from the 2009 SHOT Show when the guy in front of me who had his ammo similarly packed was being told that the ammo had to be in a separate case all together. While he was arguing with some dude, a senior TSA dude approached me and I volunteered that my bag was similarly packed, that I had done so the previous umpteen times without any issues, and advised that I didn’t have any additional cases or bags to move the ammo and mags to if they insisted as I’d just gotten back from Iraq and packed hastily and lightly to head down to SHOT. Dude said no problem, swapped contact info with me in case I ever passed through his AO again, and I was on my way. I don’t tell the airline agents I have the ammo riding in mags beneath the gun as they often don’t know what the hell they are doing when it comes to gun travel other than giving you that tag and knowing the gun isn’t supposed to be loaded.
I’ve flown United, Delta, American, Air Tran, JetBlue, Southwest, US Airways, Continental and one other airline that I’m blanking on at the moment via the above methods out of Dulles, Reagan National, STL, ATL, Chicago, Houston, MIA, FLL and about 6 other airports and have had no other issues, other than the fricking woman manning the Air Tran desk at 0600 out of Dulles twice sending my bags to fricking Atlanta instead of with me to St. Louis.
Yup, and in fact lately I’ve been checking my bags online (lower bag check fee on some airlines) and then upon getting my boarding pass at the machine at the airport, I then approach a clerk and declare the firearm. But yes, once you get to the airport you approach a ticket clerk at the counter and declare the gun. Once you’re done with the show and tell/sign part of that process, they should then walk you and the bag (varies…in STL you bring the bag to TSA yourself, while at Dulles the agent carries the bag with you following) to TSA and wait for them to scan it and give you the ok sign, after which you can then go deal with the security line to get to your gate.
[ol]
[li]Its PERFECT for 1 gun & 2 mags. I put a full frame 1911 w/ 2mags in it.
[/li][li]TSA approved.
[/li][li]Comes with a cable that can also be used to secure the box to a permanent item.
[/li][li]Small enough that it fits easily into my suitcase/ baggage AFTER inspection.
[/li][/ol]
Just make sure the TSA guy doesn’t swab your box of ammunition (not the gun case) for explosives and get excited when it turns the swab colors. I mean seriously…wtf do you expect to happen when you swab ammo for explosive residue.
This was at DCA flying to ATL.
I take three documents with me with I travel by air.
[ul]
[li]The current version of what is on the TSA website. Traveling with Special Items – Firearms & Ammunition
[/li][li]The airlines specific rules. The airlines are permitted to make more restrictive rules. Don’t depend on airline personnel being properly trained on their own rules.
[/li][li]The Congressman Young Letter from the US Attorney General in case you get routed through New York
[/li][/ul]
Some additional thoughts:
[ul]
[li]There should be no debate about where the red tag goes. The TSA website is reasonably clear. If I have enough time and they guess wrong, I turn this into a teachable moment.
[/li]
[li]I prefer the metal sided case like the Secure-It even though I usually have to open it for the TSA. I’m willing to trade some additional time for the additional deterrence to theft over a plastic case. Call me paranoid.
[/li]
[li]I prefer Visualock to secure my handgun. Again, if my gun is stolen, it is another deterrence to easily making the gun functional without the special key.
[/li]
[li]I carry fully loaded magazines in the safe with my gun. Have never had a complaint.
[/li]
[li]Most of the extra time is consumed by conversation about guns and my securing technique with the TSA people. Even got a lead on a student from the Seattle TSA guy.
[/li]
[li]I tape business cards to the gun safe with my name and phone number in case the outside identification information is lost. Thus when the bags are opened the airlines have a better chance of matching me up with my lost bag.
[/li]
[li]To speed recovery of my bags at my destination I color code the handles using colored electrical tape. It makes my bags easy to spot. I have a coding system so that should there be any dispute about a bag, I can prove it is mine. This is a popular service I perform for my CCW students, i.e. color coding the handles and registering their code.
[/li][/ul]
