Aimpoint with magnifier vs Swarovski Z61

I had a friend’s boss ask me for advice on which optics to get I put a lot of work into what I wrote him and thought I would share it.

Now for optics. There is a lot of opinions on what the best optic system is. It really depends on what you need. I am really fond of two general systems.
One being a Aimpoint with a 3x magnifier. I have that set up on my patrol rifle.

Here is how it works. To move the magnifier into position and out of position you just pull slightly back on its body and then push it to the right or left. Depending on rather you want it up or out of the way. Here are some pictures to demonstrate what I mean.

If you chose a red dot go with Aimpoint. I prefer the M4 model. I recommend buying the sight with the mounts from Larue.
http://stores.homestead.com/Laruetactical/Detail.bok?no=226

Magnifier.
http://stores.homestead.com/Laruetactical/Detail.bok?no=131

Another system I like a lot is a low power variable scope. I use a Swarovksi Z6i on my Three gun competition rifle. But its also a great tactical scope.

Here is the rifle I have that on. My Noveske.

The advantages of a variable power scope over the red dot is greater magnification. This scope is a 1 to 6 power optic. That spans close quarters shooting out to mediumish long range pretty well. The glass is also clearer and easier to see with. the down side is even at 1X the scope is not parallax free like the red dot. So you need to have a good cheek weld to use the optic. This is an issue when firing from awkward positions like Urban prone. (rifle on side laying flat on ground such as using a curb for cover or firing under a vehicle.)

Another disadvantage with the scope is the battery life is not nearly as good as the AImpoint. My Aimpoint Mark 4 will run 8 years on one AA battery. My Swarovksi will run about 200 hours on a watch battery. (2032) Now conversely the Swarovski will work without batteries with a black reticle.

One other issue is it takes longer to get your irons up and running with a scope. You must remove the scope to use your iron sights. If you use Larue mounts this takes about 5 seconds.

The Swarovski represents the best of the breed in this style of optic. Another option is Trijicons TR24 or TR21 Accupoint. They are about 90% the scope at about 50% of the price.

This is the improved version the TR24
http://www.trijicon.com/user/parts/products1.cfm?PartID=671&back_row=0&categoryID=5

The main difference over Jason’s TR21 is the true 1x at the low end of the power setting, the 30 mm tube vs. 1 inch tube of the TR21, This scope also has a greater field of view.

The Accupoint is excellent outdoors as the reticle is powered by fiber optics. It also works at night because its also powered by Tritium. But inside the reticle turns black. It still works but its a tad slower than a red dot to use.

Here are some threads to read on optics.

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=104

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=4209

I highly recommend you quality optic. Last summer I did a lot of work at the range recording my speed and accuracy with various optics vs. Iron sights. I found that at 15 yards or less in day light conditions that Irons held their own and were about equal to the red dot sights. However at 25 yards and further the optics advantage became very apparent with times being much faster with optics with greater accuracy. Optics also have a huge advantage in low lighting conditions.

Photobucket is bugged right now but the pics should show later.

Thanks, nice writeup. What should I expect to pay for the Z6i?

Retail is 2200 but the LEO and Military discount is excellent.
Pat




New camera wanted to show some pics of the reticle.
Pat

What do you use to keep from burning your hands on the rails?

Nothing. I have never had a problem with that. Have you had a problem with that. After how many rounds fired, time frame? The main problem is frost bite in the winter. Then I use gloves. It has ladder covers.
Pat

Excellent information and pictures as always.

I’d personally like to do a hands on comparison of that 1-6 scope with the S&B SD and the NF NXS 1-4.

Good EEI and thanks for the data.

Any data on weight comparisons ?

negligible or significant ?

Here are weight comparisons I researched w/ M4 & T-1.

1-6 Z6 Approx. 16.2 OZ. (source Swarovski.com tech specs.) vs. Aimpoint M4 (9.3 oz. w/o mount & 11.8 oz. w/ Aimpoint mount source aimpoint.com) & T-1 (3.0 oz w/o mount & 3.7 oz w/ factory mount source aimpoint.com) T-1 w/ LT660 (7.7 oz. w/ 3X & LT649 (8.8 oz. source LaRue Tactical per Tyler)

TIA

When deciding on my first optic, I went back and forth between a 1-4 variable and a RDS with magnifier. I ended up going with the T1, but have not yet purchased the magnifier. With just my T1, I have noticed that at 200+ yards it is kind of a guessing game as the 4 MOA dot is getting pretty big on target. Does the magnifier help you shoot any more precisely at 200+ yards? I mean, you still have the same size dot, right, just a closer view of it.

The dot is still 4moa. Since the magnifier sits behind (between the rds and you) both the target and the dot are magnified so it will look like you were closer than you are without the magnifier.

You should be able to shoot more precisely. Is it scope precise? Probably not. Most scopes do not have 4moa reticles

I have a 50 yard zero and was shooting at 4 inch steel targets at 200 yards the other day. It was making hits, but nothing consistent. I figured I was doing pretty good since the dot is 8 inches at that yardage. My gun claims 1" MOA, so I should be able to hit it every time; the optic being the issue. Would a magnifier help me in this instance? If so, how much? I would like the ability to make hits at longer yardages, I just don’t know if it is realistic with an RDS; even with a magnifier.

Yes the magnifier will help. Anything that allows you to see better will help both your speed and accuracy. What range did you set your zero at? Also when you say your rifle claims 1 moa. What do you mean. You need to test fire your gun and group it to find out. Even if your gun is capable of 1moa it will not do it with all types of ammo. If you expect 1 moa groups out of ball ammo your in for a sad surprise.

Pat

I have it zeroed at 50 yards right now.
My gun is built around the RRA A4 platform. This is what they are claiming:
http://rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=225

Unless I get a nice scope, I have no way to confirm what my gun is actually capable of; it is actually something I would like to verify. I am just using PMC 55 grain ball ammo so you may be right. (I won’t be that sad though, it is pretty accurate whatever it is)

At 50 yards its hard to tell how accurate your gun is. Ball ammo is not nearly as accurate as match ammo or even as hollowpointed hunting ammo.
Here are some pictures to illistrate.
50 yard targets ball reloads.

50 yards 77 grain Sierra match reloads

The difference is more noticable at 100 yards
Match reloads

Ball reloads

Tap reloads 55 grain

When manufactures advertise an accuracy rating its always with one type of match ammo they test with act the factory.
The gun I fried the groups with.