ACR / SCAR impressions

General Firearms Other Semi-Automatic Rifles
1

At the local gun show this weekend there were 4 ACRs and about 8 SCARs (including two black SCARs) to be found. I’m not ready for another carbine yet (I have a 6920 and a LMT) but I was finally able to compare the two side by side, I would like to get one or the other within the next 2 years.

This is not a shooting comparison but I thought I would offer some of my impressions from handling the two. Here goes;

Safeties;
I found the SCARs safety to be much more user friendly. They both are ambi safties but the SCAR rotates about 45 degrees while the ACR rotates a full 90 like the AR. However, being an ambi safety, the ACR’s right side safety interfered with my trigger finger (I am right handed). I had to move my trigger finger out of the way to allow the ACR’s safety to rotate it’s full 90 degree motion. This was very noticable and aggravating. If I were to get an ACR I would probably shave off the right side wing on the safety, it was that big of a nuisance.

Bolt release;
Again I prefered the SCAR’s, as it is nearly identical to the AR’s, at least close enough to transition to with little or no troubles. The ACR’s release is in the front of the trigger guard. I will honestly say right now that I do not know if this will be an asset or deficit for the ACR, the weapons were zip tied so I could not perform full function checks. I will call this one a plus for the SCAR and a no score/ no test for the ACR, I will defer to any of you guys with more time and knowledge on this one.

Mag release;
They both were nearly identical to the AR, so no problems here. At least for me.

Charging handles;
I think both of these will prove to be an improvement over the AR system, although I think I would prefer the non-recip handle on the ACR.

Stocks;
All the ACRs there had the fixed stock so I don’t think I can make an honest comparison here. I will say that the folding/adjustable stocks for the ACR seem very promising, now if I could just find one to fondle (molest:p). I will also say that after reviewing the SCAR’s stock several different times now that I don’t really find any faults with it, but I’ve never fired one either.

Forarms;
The ACR’s there all had the polymer/Massada type forarms. They felt very solid, tight and comfortable. I don’t really care for the exposed rails on the SCAR (I do like the rails though) but I think rail covers will solve this issue for any unused rails. I would say no issues here for either one.

Fit, finish, appearance (yeah, I know);
The only reason I bring this one up is that the ACR had some noticable machine marks on the bolt carrier. This should not cause any problems in itself, I just hope this is not a sign of BM’s less than acceptable quality from their AR’s transfering into the ACR. I guess time will tell.

Weight, handling;
This one brought another suprise. The ACR felt noticeably heavier than the SCAR, it may not actually be any heavier but it is front heavy. I know they are both piston operated and I don’t have an explanation for it but the ACR is defintely nose heavy, noticeably so. Enough so that it would probably take some getting used to. The ACR took more effort to pick up/hold with one hand on the pistol grip. The SCAR felt more “AR” like.

Conclusion;
For me, if I were to choose one right now I would go with the SCAR. I belive it has a couple of advantages and is a somewhat proven system. The ACR defintely has potential though. Time will tell I guess.

What have any of you guys found? Which would choose and why?

This has been more of a FWIW, but I though I would share my thoughts and impressions thus far.

2

Thanks for your opinions and review. I too would like to compare the 2 side by side and preferably at an open range. Hopefully somebody will soon shoot both side by side and give us a comparison. Thanks again.

O

3

I havent held an ACR yet and I own a SCAR. I would like to get a “real” Remington ACR when they come out…

4

bolt release is just like a Magpul BAD, anyone who has used/trained with a BAD knows is much better than the old side slap. Especially for malfunction clearing

for the selector you have to position your trigger finger near the bolt catch like so:

pokes you if you use it this way

pulled from this review thread, reviewer had a similar problem you were describing
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=2&f=28&t=187779&page=1

5

Bolt release is the same as the XCR. I have short stubby fingers and getting to the normal AR mag relase button is a stretch. So that would be a no go for me…

6

I agree, but I don’t know if Rem is going to offer any civilian models. I’m afraid BM is all we may have access to. Here’s hoping that Rem releases a “mil-spec” ACR for us.

ForTehNguyen:
I’ve never used the BAD, as I said ealier I don’t feel I’m in a position to offer any solid comments on the bolt release. Thanks for the pics and descriptions, it does help and gives me a better understanding.

Also thanks for the pic on the safety. I am so used to the AR system that I found the ambi to be a nuisance. I would have to take some time to retrain myself. I still think I may be better off shaving the right side safety wing off but I would not go that far until I put in some serious time to retrain. Thanks again.

7

this new design for bolt catch/release as found on the ACR and XCR and attainable by the Magpul BAD is extremely ergonomic and efficient. Once you try it you’ll see how much more fluid and smooth it is. I wish the SCAR had this design also so it can be truly ambidexterous, otherwise it still has the same bolt catch design as the AR15/M16 which had its limitations.

8

Personally I like the ergonomics of the SCAR, even though there are reports of buttstock breakages.

9

how much were they at the gun show? Prices are falling on the ACR which is always a good thing. Theres a lot of them on Gunbroker now going for $2100.

10

Shot the ACR… not impressed.

Many, Many malfunctions, heavy, no rail space, etc…

have not shot a SCAR

11

After playing with AR15’s for 10 years I am used to the ping pong paddle, so transitioning to the SCAR was no big deal. Muscle memory is a great thing.

However, I fully believe the Robarm M96 style bolt release, also found on the XCR and ACR, is all around superior.

12

Ammo and mags used?

13

this is my post from arf,

ACR vs SCAR vs XCR vs MSAR vs Sig 556

Went shooting today for the big shootout, of course i forgot the bag with the MSAR and the Sig so those got the day off. I am not a good group shooter, so i am not going to give accuracy measurements.

first set ups
XCR, about 3 years old, Aimpoint on larue low mount, 14.5" barrel w surefire FH,
ACR, brand new, Aimpoint on larue tall mount, surefire FH
SCAR, about a month old, Eotech 512, surefire FH (but does not fit my can)

I went in to today thinking the ACR was going to crush the other two and that i would sell the SCAR on Monday.
started the day shooting my ACR, had to get it sighted in, with a can and the gas setting on S, there is NO recoil, started shooting aguila 55grn, then went to centurion, the centurion is .223 spec and would not cycle the gun on the s setting. shooting off hand you notice the extra weight up front. ran like a top, love the bolt release. the gas adj is the best of all these guns, even hot its a easy adjustment.

next went to the SCAR, already with dislike for the looks, MAN THIS GUN CAN SHOOT. a lighter front end is very noticable after holding the ACR. the sights on the SCAR are the best OEM out there (ok knights rock too). this gun has no recoil, but the lack of the bolt release like the XCR and SCAR sucks. and the charging handle will hurt you at some time.

XCR, man its a classic, stock trigger blows but mine has been redone by bill springfield and rivals the other two rifles. the bolt release is a plus but it rattles and seems cheap compared to the ACR. The barrel release is nicer than the SCAR but both are outclassed by the ACR. weight is most like the ACR, but its more towards the mid section.

All three guns are great shooters, i have a new love for my SCAR, its really a fun rifle. The XCR is the most bang for your buck, its not as nice as the ACR, or feel as light as the SCAR but at a grand cheaper, its a great weapon. i love the fact that i can get other barrels, handguards, and stocks for the ACR, thats where the SCAR falls flat, i really want to SBR it but can’t.

the best answer to which is better…buy all three!

14

thanks for the comparison

how did it shoot on that ammo in unsuppressed U setting? Or did you get to test that setting?

15

I call BS.

First - there aren’t nearly enough production ACRs in circulation yet for a single data point from a single individual to be making such statements yet.

Second - out of all of us who own ACRs and started posting reports about the performance of this first batch, I haven’t seen a single one have reliability issues. I’ve got over 700 flawless rounds through mine. On TOS, another ACR owner has nearly 1000 flawless rounds through his. A SIG forum member claims to have run his hard last week (over 800 rounds in a few hours) with zero issues.

Having torn down and analyzed my ACR (and having a passing background in engineering), I can say that it is a system that has taken over 50 years of knowledge from the AR platform and engineered out damn near every point of failure possible.

16

And so I don’t come off like a fanboy, I will say that I do LOVE my ACR, but there are some flaws that Bushmaster/Remington need to address ricky tick:

Weight
The SCAR handles better for the simple fact that it weighs damn near a pound less than the ACR. Just as importantly, all that weight on the ACR is hanging well forward of the magwell causing the handling to feel nowhere near as good as the SCAR in comparison.

From what I can see, this is in large part due to Bushmaster’s decision to run M4 profile barrels. I modeled up some modified cuts in Solid Works (which accurately calculates weights) and found i could shave damn near 1/3rd of a poind off of the ACR’s barrel profile with about 2 more minutes of CNC time. This would help things a whole hell of a lot.

Compared to the SCAR, the ACR also has thicker and denser polymer. The non-recipricating charging handle also adds an extra 1-2oz.

From what I understand, Remington has taken the lead on ACR development to get it in shape for whatever may come of the Army’s Improved Carbine program. Their big goal is a weight reduction with a target of 7lbs. The Bushy version will get whatever changes come along (according to Bushmaster).

Quick Change Barrel
On the bench this weekend, I was getting 2 MOA groups at 100 yards pretty easily (shooting Black Hills 55gr). I consider that a decent group for a reliable, combat focused weapon. Removing/reinstalling the barrel shifted the POI about 1" in a random direction. Perfectly acceptable.

Than I tried the technique outlined by another ACR owner on ARFCOM and whanged the ratchet lever on the barrel trunion lock thingy so it tightened 2-3 more clicks beyond where my hands could get it down. The accuracy improved significantly! 1.25-1.5MOA.

Sorry Magpul/Bushy/Remington - if a “tool-less” quick change barrel only really works if I whack it with a 2lbs hammer, than it isn’t a tool-less quick change barrel. I would vastly prefer to carry around a small 7/16 alan wrench (cost: $0.07 from Wiha Germany, weight <1oz) than a 2lbs hammer. Besides, you could easily integrate reliable storage of that alan wrench in the area taken up by the racheting mechanism.

I don’t think removing the ratchet system would save much weight though. It is very brilliant in it’s design. It just needs to be easier to tighten down a little bit more than what it currently allows.

Price
The price is too high. And I say that as someone who got a smokin’ deal at only $2000 for mine.

As I said on another forum, I get the Bushmaster business model; they have invested a lot of upfront capital in making this thing. Counting the number of high quality injection molded pieces, extrusions and the trunion system, it is clear that there is a LOT of money behind the ACR. It is also clear that the marginal cost to produce an ACR is a hell of a lot less than the marginal cost to produce an AR. The ACR’s heavy use of injection molding, minimally machined extrusions, small parts designed for machinability (trunion system, piston) all speaks to modern, high-volume, low cost, high-quality manufacturing methods.

But… Bushmaster/Freedom Group has decided to bleed early adopters to try to recoup as much of that up front capital as quickly as possible. It is a valid business strategy. It makes perfect sense, but it does keep me from saying that the ACR is the greatest thing since sliced bread.

In Conclusion
These are my complaints. The things I like about the ACR would make for a MUCH longer list. It is very thoughtfully designed and the overall quality is excellent. The ergonomics are fantastic. The layout and overall operating system make a lot of sense. The non-recripicating charging handle is the way to go (having been bitten by a SCAR). Once the weight gets comparable to a SCAR and $500 comes off of the price, I can’t see how the ACR won’t be a major platform for decades to come.

And really, this is what brings us to the core of why I prefer the ACR to the SCAR; say what you will about Bushmaster fouling this up (god knows, I’ve bitched and moaned about it). Also say what you will about the ACR weight and some general improvements that could be made and the price. The thing is - these things will all improve in the next 12-24 months. Bushmaster/Remington are making massive investments in this platform. They have committed to moving it forward, supporting it and making it dominate.

From what I can tell with the SCAR, FN couldn’t really give two hoots about moving the platform forward. There will be no new barrels for civilians. No ergonomic improvements. No evolution. This weapon’s development was paid for by Uncle Sugar, and it looks like funding for any more SCAR evolutions or improvements is gone and civilian sales just aren’t worthy of FN investing much more in it.

The SCAR is what it is and that is all it is ever going to be. I’ll buy one someday just because they are interesting. The ACR however, is a platform with an extremely bright future. It is currently a great weapon that is on it’s way to being a fantastic one.

17

shot fine in u

18

That is not a high register position and if you fall, you can still snatch the trigger on reflex.

19

I also got to fondle a new basic ACR today. Since seeing the first pictures of the Masada I knew I had to have one. Enter Bushmaster and the changes. OK, I’ll wait and see.

Since it was at a local gun shop I only got to feel it up. My first impressions are, THIS GUN FITS ME LIKE GLOVE!!! It was equipped with Magpul sights and along with a perfect cheek weld it was as close to perfect out of the box as I have seen.

All I need now is to run 100 rounds though one and the enhanced model has a high probablity of being on the buy list.

20

The ACRs could be had for $2399 and the SCARs for $2499.