I have been using Aimpoint red dot scopes for years. I took my brand new TA11F out for some short range shooting (25 yards and less). When I keep both eyes open, I am just as fast as with my T1/M2/M3. There is no difference. This ACOG is new. But, I am scratching my head about all the concern over the ACOG performance up close. I have used traditional 3x9 scopes for hunting. Up close, even with both eyes open, they are slower than a RDS. I assumed the ACOG would be too because it is magnified. However, the difference that makes the ACOG faster is the illuminated chevron. It seems to make finding your target faster.
I wish I would have bought an ACOG sooner. I don’t see the short range limitations.
25 yards was the maximum distance. I was making shots at 5-10’ as easily as with my CompM3. The illuminated reticle and both eyes open make it easy and fast. To me, the red dot on top would seem pointless.
Some of us…many of us even, find an interesting thing happens when using an ACOG up close. When we use our non-dominant eye to sight the target and impose the chevron on the target, we miss. Blink to make the dominant eye in charge again, and we see the chevron is actually several inches left (or right) of the intended target, even though we’re only a few yards away.
This can be attributed to a slight astigmatism, eye dominance issues, even the very shape of our eyes. But the point is, it happens to a lot of people. We simply don’t see what we think we see.
So using an ACOG up close requires us to look through the magnification, which can make things difficult.
So your split times, on a timer, were identical for all shots inside of 25m? How about shooting on the move? Same splits as with a RDS like the M2, M3 or T1?
I know what my results were, and I know how much easier EAG Tactical’s carbine course was with a RDS vs. my TA31F.
I can be almost as fast with a TA31 at at 7 yards as I can be with an EoTech.
The problem comes in when it is not a traditional buff target in daylight with a known position target. Just in case others didn’t get the memo, neat little ranges with neat lines and neat targets are not the same as fighting for your life in a dingy room against some asshole with dark clothes in weird lighting conditions that is allowed to move around.
Magnified optics are not the answer for these environments, and especially not ones that need light to make the reticle stand out. \
I like ACOGs for what ACOGs do well. In that field they are absolutely untouchable, and I have shelled out my own hard-earned cash on them for that field.
Do not mistake square-range application with last resort, “it works or I die” application.
The longer you work with the optic in a variety of situations the more you will see the limitations. That is not a criticism of the optic (as I said before, what it does well it does very well), but rather the concept.
I think that we discussed this a while ago, in which I expressed the opinon that your use would probably fit within the ACOGs performance envelope, making the MRD redundant.
Hmmm. I will see if I can find the thread.
ETA- Ah, ha. Found it. HERE it is.
Anyway, all that really matters is if the optic works for you in your application. Would I recommend it for HD? Nope.
Would I recommend it for GP? Yup.
Which do I consider to be an essential? HD.
If you are happy and you have a gun and optic that do the HD role well- crack on and enjoy what you have. I have 2 ACOGs, and while neither of them are on a grab-n-go gun, they are both very good at doing well in 3-gun competitions.
Failure to stop, I always respect what you have to say about these things. I just wanted to let you know I wasn’t trying to say the ACOG was the ideal optic for everything. I have 6 AR15s set up with Aimpoints for HD. I would never choose the ACOG for that. I guess what I was trying to say was that, based on what I had read about the ACOG, I expected it to be much worse at close distance outdoors. I initially planned to use a T1 on a Larue offset mount. I do not think it is necessary now. I am planning to use it for coyotes and jackrabbits up close, running, and far away. I think it will perform well for that.
My ACOG scoped rifles is my non-homedefense outdoors rifle and it seems MUCH easier to use than what I expected at extreme close distances.
The next time I raid a crack house in Compton, I will bring my rifle with the CompM3. If I have to repel Chinese invaders in the hills of Anaheim, I’ll grab the ACOG. (just joking)
Thanks, as usual for your input. I sincerely appreciate it.
Used an ACOG for the first time ever today!!! Haha, I know I’m such a newb Just thought I would tell everyone, that today was my first day to use an Optic on an AR…have always shot with Irons! And all I gotta say, is WOW!
To GJJ…sorry bro, had to let out my excitement somewhere!
I have used Compact ACOGS, in 3x and 1.5x varieties, quite a bit in matches and classes and for hunting hogs. At the time I was dealing with an uncorrected astigmatism and the non-deforming dot was something of an attractive feature to me.
The ACOG requires more sustainment training to remain adept at using. I can set down a carbine for a couple of months and pick it back up, and if it has an Aimpoint on it I can be back in the swing almost immediately, with an ACOG it takes time.
Shooting partially obscured moving multiple targets on the move is a real test for the ACOG-equipped shooter.
I suffer from it as well. With the aimpoint and EOTECH, I see two little dots instead of one. But, if I squint slightly, it becomes one. May not work for you though. With the ACOG it is clear and crisp. Technically, it is how the light is projected, reflected, etc that makes us hard for us.
I’m one of the few I guess that has no trouble using an ACOG up close. I just focus on the target and superimpose the crosshair/chevron/doughnut and it works fine…for me. Not everyone can do this. Like Failure2stop said though the ACOG is harder to see in certain lighting and so I prefer an Aimpoint for this as well.
I put a scope cover on the front of my ACOG. When I’m close up (inside 15-20 yards) I use it with the scope cover closed so that it mimics a red dot sight. When shooting past 25 yards I open the scope cover and use it how it was intended.
Given the repeatability of zero using LaRue mounts and since you have both, isn’t keeping the M3 on your rifle/carbine and the ACOG in a pouch on your gear, swapping if necessary for the longer range situation, a viable solution?
I tried that for while with my patrol rifle. The problem is you never have your gear bag with you when things go south. You are far better off having an optic that can do both right on your gun.
Pat
Just thought I would tell everyone, that today was my first day to use an Optic on an AR…have always shot with Irons! And all I gotta say, is WOW!
