Usually when I see a CQB setup there is some type of red dot for an optic. Anyone run an ACOG on a barrel that short? Anything wrong with doing this? Are ACOGs ran on the Mk18?
Which model?
Pappabear has a 12.5" gun with an ACOG that we’ve shot out to 800 yards with. The reticle worked pretty good with 69gr SMKs. 700 yards was about max… 800 became random bullet lobbing with an occasional hit.
TA31 series with DOCTER optic on top.
For CQB it is less than ideal. Can it be made to work? Sure, but why bother when an RDS’s is king in CQB environments.
I am NOT a fan of that much offset in a CQB setting. Its gotta be 4" height over bore with it on top of the ACOG…
I was thinking it could aide in target identification as well. I’ve seen the Elcan Specter DR on the Mk18 and thought the ACOG might work as well.
If target ID is a big concern you could just buy a decent pair of binos.
You mentioned CQB in your post. If you are using it as a one size fits all, top it with whatever floats your boat. The Elcan is a variable which make a little more since on a MK18 vs a fixed 4X which is useless in a CQB environment which is where a 10.5 excells… YMMV
All but one of our SWAT officers run Colts and Acogs. They have a choice between 1.5 or 3x. I believe it is about 60/40. I do know one of the Sergeants came to me for an eotech because he did not like the 3x acog blacking out during support side shooting. David
What’s your opinion on a red dot (DOCTER optic) mounted on top of the ACOG and transitioning b/t the two when needed? Best of both worlds?
No, not best of both worlds. As has already been stated an RDS mounted on top of the ACOG will have a rather unpleasant height over bore and requires a different cheek weld be used for the secondary optic than the primary optic, and the post below proves that most people don’t switch from the primary to the back up when under pressure.
The post above was in reference to a deer that took the shooter by surprise and which he shot using his primary magnified optic.
Honestly the one of the best choices would be a variable magnification scope like a NightForce NXS 1-4 or the S&B Short Dot series; an Aimpoint or Eotech with a magnifier would also be a good choice. Additionally if you are considering the Elcan, it should be mentioned that the Elcans have had a reputation in the past of losing zero, though that can largely be blamed on the early mounts.
In any case, ACOGs are pretty much bomb proof and if you learn to master using the BAC can be used reasonably well at close range. However, there are better options if you intend to use this in CQB and my personal preference would be for an RDS with flip to side magnifier. If you see using it more often at range than I would recommend the 1-4x variable.
It all depends on what you are doing real world in my opinion. There’s always a certain amount of disparity between what is considered “right” by the general community and what actually fits operational needs best.
I run an ACOG on my 11.5". It works great out to about 500 yards. For CQB distances I noticed that I had issues as opposed to my Aimpoint.
On a suppressed SBR, ACOG does make a lot of sense, but only if BAC works for you. They are the lightest rugged zoom optics for each amount of magnification available, but it’s only rare because usually on a 10" rifle folks want to have the quickest possible time on target, which usually is a reflex sight, and usually elevated a bit extra from the receiver (lower 1/3 mount), which isn’t the perfect way to run an ACOG.
The most recent shooting class I went to (RB1) there were some army grunts running a TA01DOC setup, and it took them a whole morning before they were even consistently on paper with the piggyback sights (they were RMRs, but the difference isn’t the model of micro sight). They aren’t easy to use, and in all honestly, they would be better off running just a TA31 and firing quickly off the BAC.
Better option would be a TA31 and an offset Aimpoint T-1 (not sure, but I know there are quite a few pictures of MC Recon running that in Sangin, and a few other places).
Best would still be a 1-4x variable, especially if a taller (SPR-1.93 or ReconX-T) mount works for you, with the S&B Short Dot being the best, NF 1-4x being great for the money, and Trijicon’s TR24RT being the poor man’s short dot (but I love mine).
I’ll concur with the RDS recommendations for a SBR. A magnifier on a QD or TwistMount can add some more utility for distance shooting, but doesn’t have to ride on the rifle all the time.
My TA44 ACOG’s work well for CQB.
I used to have a TA31 on one of my rifles and it worked out ok. I bought the kill flash for it just so I could use a front flip cover. With the cover closed the both eyes open method worked pretty well for shorter ranges.
I’ll preface this with what I use mine for : I use an ACOG (TA01NSN) on a suppressed MK18 mainly for hunting & target shooting, but occasionally competition. I bought an offset mount and Burris Fastfire II to help with close target acquisition when using it in competition.
When I got it to the range to wring it out, I wasn’t a fan. It was ok for close target transition, but there was a ton of blow-back through the ejection port that blasted me in the face when I rolled the rifle and transitioned to the red dot. It was bothersome even with eye protection, & I really wouldn’t want to do that for any length of time without it, at all. I just couldn’t transition from target to target as quickly as I wanted to with it using the red dot because of that. I’m waiting on an AR gas vent to show up to see if that helps any, but in all likely hood I’ll go to a 12 o’clock mount to avoid that completely. I just don’t compete enough to want to train through the awkwardness of the ejection port blast or spend more money on different buffer, spring combo’s etc… to try & cut down on the blast. Just throwing that out there for the additional view point on it. ymmv.
The TA-31 (3X) works better for CQB, and has better eye relief.
I’d add that a T-1 with magnafier would be better for PID tool.
Why not just mount the dr at the 1 o clock position? That seems to make a lot more sense than mounting it on top of the ACOG. Don’t have to break cheek weld to use it. There are plenty of rail adapters to put something at 1 o clock. Although admittedly a dr on an ACOG looks tacticool.