My son is wanting an M-4 look-a-like and he doesn’t have a lot of money to spend on it. He is looking at the DSArms upper kit they have advertised for $275 and also the CAR15 kit that JT Distributing sells for $499 or the DS-4 kit. We have access to lowers to build this firearm with. He is headed into the military next fall and wants to get a little experience with one.
He is concerned with accuracy of these barrels. He shoots competiton on the JRROTC team and is wanting something that is fairly accurate. Also wanting this for all around use on the farm for plinky and varmits.
What type of groups can he expect from these barrels? Any other barrel/kit suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I even recommended the 16" Bull Barrel kit by JT as I have one in 22" and it is very accurate with handloads but I think he is wishing to stay along the lines of the M-4.
I am sure I will catch flack for this, but my american spirit is a bloody tackdriver, even with factory ammo. They sell just the uppers. They have a side charging upper, but I would stick with the normal set up. They advertize 1/2 moa, for what ever that’s worth. I don’t have optics for mine so - can’t vouch for the moa gurantee. I can say that I friggin murdered a golfball @ 100 yds a few weeks back. I didn’t count hits but I saved what was left of the carcass for bragging rights, hillbilly style. The more I shoot this thing, the better it gets.
Anything you find with a 16" barrel should be more than capable, adding a FF railed handguard like the TROY MRF or MI 2pcFF rails will add versatility. The 1:9" chrome-moly barrels are remakably accurate with the 55gr loads, and if budget is key on a build like this, that’s my recommendation.
The ammunition is likely going to be the limiting factor anyway - WOLF is cheap, but not gnat’s arse capable. Black Hills is precise, but costs three times as much - consider how much accuracy you need, and at what range, with realistic considerations about what kind of ammunition it will be fed, and what the final budget is going to be (including magazines, sights, furniture, accessories)
In an apples to apples comparison (ie. Colt 14.5" M4 barrel vs. Colt 16" M4 barrel) you are not going to see much difference.
Barrel length has nothing to do with accuracy. However barrel length does effect velocity, and most guys confuse the two. Just an example I have seen. A shooter uses a 20" barrel and is shooting a gong at 400 yards. He holds the dot at the top edge of the gong and hits it several times without any problems. He then takes a 10.5" barrel, holds in the same place and his rounds are impacting in the dirt below the gong and then makes a comment about the short barrel not being accurate. I had him take a few more shots holding the dot a little higher to compensate for the loss in velocity. Took us a couple rounds to figure out how high he needed to hold, once we figure that out he had no issues hitting the gong with the 10.5" barrel at 400 yards.
The velocity differnece between a 16" and 14.5" is going to be around 35 - 50 feet per second. Not enought to even worry about.
This article may provoke some thought. You can also see me shooting both 16" and 14.5" barrels on smaller than average targets out to 425 yards:
I generally find that the barrel is the last thing that affects accuracy in the real world, with the first two being the shooter and the ammunition. I have seen hundreds of shooters that obsess about the accuracy potential of their barrels who then never shoot in an environment where that accuracy would be tested, are incapable of taking advantage of the accuracy potential of the barrel, and feed the gun ammo that is similarly incapable of matching the potential of the barrel.
In short, I have yet to see a barrel that is less accurate than the shooter running it and the ammo being fed to it.
Now, in fairness, I don’t hang around events that are purely accuracy driven. I am quite certain that there are shooters that would be hamstrung by trying to shoot my 11.5", .625" dia. SBR in their events.
Good points made above, especially if you are a handloader–you can very likely develop a load that will shoot in a not-made-for-ultimate-accuracy barrel.
Where a good barrel comes in, however, is in being able to shoot a lot of different rounds, i.e. greater variety of factory rounds with greater accuracy more consistently.
Ok guys, maybe a little more info about myself. I am ex-military and was on the marksmanship team. I competed in the worldwide championships in 1980. So I know all about barrel length and its affects on velocity, trajectory on said velocity, sight radius etc. I do mean to sound like I know everything but I guess I miswrote what I was trying to ask. I am wanting to know “generally” what BRAND of barrels are more consistent and better from an accuracy standpoint. Sure I’m sure he would love to have a Lilja, Krieger, etc. barrel but he does not have the money to purchase a high dollar barrel.
I do handload and the stated 3/4 inch group from the Bushmaster is great!!! I am sure he would be please with that type of accuracy. I told him that if he can get a “budget” barrel that groups 1"-1.5" he should be happy. His next build he can focus on a tack-driver.
I have almost got him talked into getting one of JT Distributing bull barrel kits instead of going the M-forgery route.
Bull barrel for a fighting/defensive carbine may not be the best route. Even a 16" bull just doesn’t handle well. Deciding on the exact purpose up front will save lots of headache down the road, but I think going with a shorter bull (i.e. 16") is trying to compromise too much between accuracy and handling.
The best thing to do would be to read anyone’s post that says Industry professional, Senior Member, or Moderator under their title and start there.
I have never had a chromoly barrel but read good things on accuracy. The DSA should be fine for what you want. I saw a post on TOS sometime back and the only complaint I heard other than most of the parts aren’t tier 1 is you really got to scrub that barrel to get it clean.
Me, being the lazy bastard I am, have all chrome lined barrels. Probably the best deal out there for a chrome lined one is the Daniel Defense for $169. Not a CHF barrel but should fit within your 1-1 1/2" moa spec’s and would be easier maintenance wise.
Just my personal opinion, not to be confused with fact.
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