I am interested to hear what most members find to be “acceptable accuracy”. When you shoot your AR, what standard do you hold in terms of accuracy to be satisfied?
I should note that I am talking about your “go-to” or “SHTF” rifle, dedicated precision rigs need not apply
If I’m working with m193, my BCM 14.5" can consistently hold 2.5 to 3 MOA but I’ve gotten ten shot groups slightly larger than 2 MOA. If I’m running 855, 4 MOA is acceptable. With match grade ammo through any of my CL barrels (10.5", 14.5", 16", 20"), I expect at least 2 MOA.
This all comes down to optics and shooting positions of course. For me, I use either an Aimpoint, usually a T1, sometimes with a magnifier or an ACOF TA31 RCO. I usually shoot from prone though sometimes I use the magazine as a rest on the bench at the range. Any time I think of MOA, I think of ten shot groups.
If any one of those things were to change, I’d imagine my acceptable MOA would as well.
Kyle Defoor wrote an excellent blog post called the rule of four. Despite their claims, even accomplished shooters are hard pressed to consistently shoot better than 4 moa without magnification.
http://www.kyledefoor.com/2011/11/reflections-on-accuracy-and-number-4.html
great read.
I am trying to ground myself and my expectations. I am on par with Jon’s answer regarding match ammo and 2M0A, and I think 3-4 with M193 is realistic.
I was sighting in my 1-5x on my 10.5" Noveske and was horrified with the spread with Winchester M855, I then got it down to just shy of 2MOA with reloads but I wasn’t sure if I should be happy with that.
I’m assuming we are referring to decent ammo etc…
For me 2MOA is where I would like my guns to be with decent ammo. I find with quality ammo I can shrink that a good bit.
yes, decent ammo.
From a rest, or standing?
I was thinking from a rest, but the question leaves it open, whatever you demand from the gun.
Minute of man?
I don’t remember the last time I shot for groups from a good rest but 3-4 inches with PMC bronze from prone at 100 seems about what I had last time I confirmed the sights. That is with an EOTECH. I don’t shoot irons for groups well so we won’t even go there. :eek:
1moa for me. If I was asked this a month ago(before I started reloading)my answer would have been 2 or 3 moa.
1 MOA for me as well. I was getting a one inch group (100 yards) last week with American Eagle and a BCM middy w/Aimpoint H-1 shooting from a bench. This is what I expect from a bench and nothing more. If I’m shooting off-hand, keeping all shots on an eight inch plate at 100 is more than acceptable.
The AR-15 has enormous accuracy potential. With a good barrel and good ammunition, 1 MOA is entirely attainable and to be expected. Speaking about mechanical, potential precision, I like to see all my AR’s shooting in vicinity of 1 MOA. Can I shoot 1 MOA from any position other than prone, off the bench, or from an improvised supported position? Nope. But when the hardware is out there, why not take advantage?
If I’m out of breath, my heart rate is in the 180’s, my eye-pro is fogging up, and I’m being stressed, let’s say my own potential for precision opens up to 4 MOA. If I break the trigger at the outside edge of that 4 MOA ring, and my rifle / ammo are capable of 1 MOA, I’m going to miss by a maximum of 5 MOA. If I’m shooting M855 for example, a classic 4 MOA load, I might miss by 8 MOA. No-go.
So saying that most shooters are only capable of 4 MOA and thus 4 MOA is acceptable out of a rifle is false logic. You have to consider error stacking.
You mitigate as much error as possible through training, and then take it down one step further with equipment.
So, my answer is 1 MOA inherent, mechanical potential out of the rifle and ammo.
If I can rest the gun, and I’m using optics, I will accept nothing less than 1ish MOA with consistent ammo at 100-300 yards.
Get out to 400-500 then I’m happy with 2ish MOA.
Standing unsupported 4 MOA is sometimes possible.
When doing the run-n-gun thing, I’m just happy to hear the ping on the steel.
An aftermarket trigger and stock have been factored into what I deem ‘acceptable’.
I chose 2 MOA. The Army uses 3 MOA as the minimum standard, but over the years I’ve found that the average M16\M4 is really right around a 2 MOA gun. Match grade ammo can drop this down around 1 MOA, but since we’re talking about a go to gun, 2 MOA does it for me.
These days (45 years young), I’m happy with minute-of-pie-plate at 100 yards. I have astigmatism in my right eye, so the red dot in my Aimpoint looks like a short-tailed comet. I need a flip-away magnifier.
I agree with you on this which is why I would rather spend extra to get the better barrels from the higher end CL HF makers/assemblers.
It is always good to know that it’s you, not the gun.
From a bench my ARs must be capable of 1MOA. I wish the rifle to have the capability even if I can not match it with my lack of skills.
Offhand, with an RDS or iron sights, with a carbine, I’d be happy with consistently keeping my shots inside 6MOA at 100 yards.
I’m working on it
This thread confused itself. Are we talking what kind of accuracy I’m happy with from my equipment? Or from me?
I have to agree with aOcake on this. You should strive to have equipment that, on it’s own, is accurate (among other things).
After that, you do your part knowing that any inaccuracies are most likely shooter induced. Assuming your rig is in good working order.
From a 20" Govt profile Colt Match Target: NM front sight post at 100yds
30 shot string fired after some corrections seen lower right.