AAR EAG Carbine Eloy AZ 11-13Sept 2007

EAG conducted a Carbine Operators class at the Eloy PD Range, 11-13 September.
At 0729 hours, 11 Sept (1029 WTC time) we fired an NSR as a salute into the berm- the time at which the North Tower fell. I placed a call to my Brother, retired Firefighter Timothy Rogers, who was attending a memorial service for the 12 members of his company- Squad Company 1) murdered in the attack on our country, so they could hear the sound of Freedom going downrange.
We kept the line open so that he, the members of the Squad, and their families could hear the sound of freedom going downrange.
This was an open enrollment class, but the mix was very much favoring the professional side with all but 3 either cop, military or other DoD/ Gov. The overall quality of the population was universally high, and the equipment worn/ used was very much GTG.
T1 reached a high of 115 degrees on the range- it stayed in the low 100’s all week, and some were not up to coping with the heat. While you don’t need to be a tri athlete to attend a 3 Day class, but a certain level of physical fitness is assumed.
While not necessarily related to this class, and regardless of your level of fitness, you need to be able to understand issues related to heat casualties. It seems that some have a pathological aversion to hydrating, which causes some to fall out early. However, more commonly it is a combination of pre existing health issues (obesity, diabetes, sedentary life style and so forth) that combined with physical exertion, hot temperatures, cold temperatures or whatever, the learning curve rapidly disappears over the horizon. Safety is impacted, absorbing information stops and training is ruined for those who are more in tune.
You need to stay hydrated. It isn’t an option.

Equipment problems were mercifully few. A PRI charging handle fractured at the front, something we haven’t seen before.
A POF gun went down on T1, but another ran like a sewing machine all through the class.
On of my BCM uppers, after 7200+ rounds without any more then a field cleaning finally started getting sluggish. We cleaned the bolt (not a BCM bolt), replaced the bolt rings and extractor spring, splashed on some more Slip 2000 and cranked off 350 more rounds w/o a problem.
A Colt 6920 had some feeding issues which were traced to ammo/ lube.
We are seeing more Aimpoint M4’s in class. I am running/ loaning 4 of these out, with good results. Having said that, we have seen all of mine as well as several others suffer from mount separation. Aimpoint needs to take a page out of the TangoDown and Larue Tactical Playbook and Loctite these mounts at the factory.
I have Larue mounts to replace the OEM mounts and am Loctiting mine as they cycle through the maintenance schedule.
We ran my 3 S&W M&P’s at this class to get a more realistic handle on writing a SWAT story on them. My goal is 5,000 rounds through each of them. I’m fed up with writers who do a one day, 50 round session with a gun off of a bench and declare them whatever.
Magazines and ammo are constant and common problems. Poor magazines happen because of wear issues- worn feed lips, cracked spines and the like. They need to be changed, and regularly. They don’t last forever- don’t fall in love with them. Replace them when they need it.
The PMAGs are more common in class, and they continue to work better than most would have believed.
Ammo is in short supply. Good ammo is even harder to get. Just understand that you are going to face problems with it.
Lube is necessary to run the gun of course, but not all lubes are alike- or even useful. Some promote carbon to an extent that will hinder reliability. Be sure that what you use actually works, and is not just a fad.

It was great to see old friends again, as well as to meet new ones. Among the former was Clay Huemoeller, a large human who is SureFire’s mil guy; Jerod Johnson, now with H&G; Jeff Arms, a Fed instructor who was here for both AZ classes; Del Maslen, a Yuma Range Warden; Mark Dietzler, who was OCONUS until just prior to the class. The one common thread is that –with few cold exceptions- there are few zeros attending these classes. Almost everyone who comes to class comes with strong motivation, but it is equally gratifying to see that almost all have a strong sense of humor and a sense of being part of the group, even for a short time.
Thanks as always to Mike and Josh, who kept people and guns healthy and operable. Thanks as well to Chris Lapre for hosting and working the class and for providing a puppy fix with his new addition to the family, Marty. She is a charmer.
Kudos to Larue Tactical, Viking Tactics, TangoDown, Slip 2000, SureFire, Eagle Industries, CSM Gear, Tactical Springs, HG, The Wilderness and LMT for their continued support. It is greatly appreciated. The prize table was lucrative for this class.
A new class starts today. What a great job!

Pat,

You really need to do some training in the cold states right about now. Escape that hot weather you’ve been talking about so often in these AARs.

Hah!
A little coolness would be welcome right now.
Trutfully, i despise the cold. Once it get’s down to the 40’s i am miserable.
I don’t like the low 100’s, but strongly prefer that to the sub teens.
I tolerate the heat fairly well (as do Mike and Josh) but apparently a lot of students are behind the power curve. Then again, i just drive the boat, and don’t have to perform in gear all day.

No, i have two CO classes scheduled for CO in 08 and that is about all i’m willing to do in those areas that are (brrrrrrrr) cold :stuck_out_tongue:

Pat Roger’s

I tolerate the heat fairly well

There’s an Understatement…:stuck_out_tongue:

Pat, I have been reading your AAR’s here and on 10-8 forums and have noticed you mention PRI Gasbuster’s breaking a few times. I saw in this particular thread where you described the break, but where are the majority of the others failing at?

I got one of these PRI’s when I got my first AR suppressor, and I love the latch, but the chagring handle itself is nothing special. Have you seen any of the actual latches breaking or is it just the charing handles? Would one be alright running just the replacement latch on a regular charging handle?

Thanks in advance and take care.

Hootie

Oh well. Can’t blame a guy for trying. Had I been paying closer attention, the StJoMo class wouldn’t have been that bad of a trip.

Whootiewho: To answer your question, the front of the charging handle broke off. The part that goes over the carrier key.

I’d never heard of that happening myself, but I guess it does. :confused:

Anyway, now that I’m back in California, 90 degrees doesn’t feel so bad.

Many thanks to Pat, Mike, Josh, and Chris for putting on a great class. I could not have been more happy to be there, and hope to take another, next year at the latest. It would have been awesome to stick around, like one hardcore soul, for the following class in the same place!

My M4LE (with the old SA BCG) ran great through the course, with no cleaning but lots of lube. I failed to keep track of the round count, but suffice it to say the barrels warmed up a bit. While shooting up what was left in my mags a couple of days later, I had three FTCs in a row, with the round going up into where the gas tube pokes into the upper. Never had that before; I retracted the stock, tapped it on the ground while pulling on the charging handle, and each malf was cleared in turn. Then 100 more rounds without issue.

Pat, I can’t remember what you said would cause this. The weapon was dirty, but wet, and when I cleaned it there was no huge buildup anywhere. Could you square me away on this?

Thanks again to all for doing your thing-I appreciate it!

Fred- sorry for the delay- i missed this.
Thanks for the kind words. Jeff did stay for the secomd class, and shot just as hard as in the first.

I’m having difficulty understanding this stoppage. Was the projectile nose up into the upper receiver?
If so, did you perform an immediate action drill? Did that not clear it??
If you didn’t do an IAD, why not?
Did you mortar it straight away? And if so, why?