A simple apology to the late Mr. E. Stoner and team

AR/M4 AR General Discussion
1

I’m sorry I spent time and energy chastising your AR rifle design over the years.

After spending the first half of my shooting life with AK’s I know them well. I did plenty of typing and talking picking on the AR because I thought it wasn’t what it should have been. Not that accurate in it’s basic forms nor very reliable. I was wrong.

A great amount of R&D, testing and use by the military and MORE so civilian industry and shooters has made a good rifle even better.

Thanks to BCM for providing a quality product at a good value. Spending time with mine It’s been every bit as reliable as the better AK’s I’ve had and far, far more accurate and user friendly. Not having to custom fit every part and ease of using optics has been great too but I digress!

I write this now because I took my BCM (of proven reliability) out to 200 yds at a formal range and bench (and a simple sand bag) to see what it (we) could do. Not only has it been perfectly reliable but its more accurate than I thought.

There was almost no wind that day. But it was so hot and humid my goggles were fogging and beads of sweat poured down. My damp clothes stuck to me I did what I could. I was pleasantly surprised that this rifle and I could put five rounds under 4 inches at 200 yds. This was done five times in about 25 minutes. (Had to change out targets…and I jogged because walking is boring)

You precision guys are laughing I’m sure but I was very happy with it considering my skill level (meh…) and the rifle and ammo. (Great, but not made for precision)

Anyway, thanks again Mr. Stoner for the accurate, reliable AR rifle. Sorry it took me so long to figure it out. (You too, BCM!)

Edited to add: Details! Rifle lower is standard A2 forged type, M4 stock, Palmetto State Armory trigger group, (trigger is meh…), grip is Magpull MOE, Upper is all factory BCM. (BCG, BFH 1:7 14.5 in “Lightweight” barrel midlength with pinned A2 FH and A2 sight block. Handguard added is Magpull MOE.

Optic was a Weaver 1-3X 20mm scope mounted with a once piece brand-name mount whose name I forget at the moment.

Ammo was factory PMC 55 gr 5.56 M193-type (Groups four inches and less, hit about three inches lower than the other ammo)
Other ammo was factory Federal 50 gr “grey tip” .223. (About 3 3/4 inch groups typically) Landed about two inches high. (had zero’ed with this to 50 yds. previously)

2

For Mr. Kalashnikov,

I know he was proud (and he should be!) for designing an inexpensive, reliable and powerful sub-machine gun for his tank crews. It can even be used like a rifle in a pinch.

And be you a home sick Russian soldier in Ukraine or a Nigerian child soldier you don’t have to know how it works, how to make it better, or how to fix it to use it. But do clean the chamber from time to time and keep oil on it inside and out to prevent rust and it will provide several short lifetimes of service.

There must be vodka in heaven Mr. Kalashnikov, or it wouldn’t be heaven.

3

I have always wondered if Mr. Kalashnikov was as extreme a communist as the members of his government are. When I see a AK all I can see is all the corruption, land take overs, government take overs, terrorist’s support, murder, mayhem, cold war, etc., etc., that it reminds me of.

Please do not lecture me on how the U.S. has done the same things. If anyone around here feels that way, that’s your right. I just do not want to hear about it and then have to go puke.

However, the AK is a incredible weapon.

4

I’m thinking that’s a no:
“I sleep well. It’s the politicians who are to blame for failing to come to an agreement and resorting to violence.” - Michail Kalashnikov.

Also, according to Wikipedia:
In 1930, his father and most of his family were deprived of property and deported to the village of Nizhnyaya Mokhovaya, Tomsk Oblast.

Yeah I don’t think he was a fan.

5

I’m always amazed and delighted at how powerful and enlightening an epiphany can be. I’ve had a few, especially since turning 40 LOL!

Guess the raging testosterone levels of youth kinda prevent them.

Regardless, enjoy your AR…shoot it in good health!

Take Care,

Buzz

6

I was an AK fan boy until I took my milled Arsenal and shot it side-by-side with my run-of-the-mill BCM M4.

I shot quality American-made ammo in both.

Lo and behold, the AR hit nearly everything I aimed at. The AK couldn’t even hit coffee-can sized targets most of the time.

I sold my AK’s and bought more M4’s.

7

Love my AKs. Never had a Problem with my Colts. Never had accuracy issues with AKs, so long as they are sighted in like AKs. Neither reminds me of anything other than a rifle. If I really cared then I should drop all German guns for the atrocities they committed. Or maybe I should dump IBM for selling to the Nazis.

Don’t see what the big deal is. It’s a tool.

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8

How far was the can, and were you using irons?

I’ve yet to find an Arsenal that couldn’t do 3 MOA or better. The sights can be difficult, and sometimes the trigger doesn’t help matters, but the rifle itself is quite capable.

This.

Life is better with both.

9

I ran an AK for half a day at Tigerswan a few years ago.

That was all I needed to fully appreciate the AR and have no interest in an AK whatsoever. NONE.

10

I didn’t pace it off, but I estimate it was roughly 100 yards. That’s what that particular range was originally marked off to be, so it couldn’t have missed by more than a few feet.

Yes, I was using irons. I actually prefer irons to optics even on an AR. Could be the long double-action-revolver type trigger didn’t help. But there was no mistaking that the AK wasn’t turning in that accurate a performance. I think I was doubly disappointed because I thought a milled Arsenal was supposed to be the shizzle.

11

I’d chalk it up to a disagreement between your eye and the sights. Optics make life so much easier on any rifle, but with AK’s in particular. Plus, there are several AK triggers out there, the Tapco G2 being most common, with a grotesque amount of over travel.

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12

AK sights are fast to acquire using the front sight as a poor mans RDS. Gets fast hits up close. Otherwise they suck and like everything else optics are better. I’ve done it. Mounting a scope can be tricky and then you have comb issues and you aren’t rewarded with much. Especially with 7.62 and common ammo. Stretch the 7.62x39 out to 200 or 300 yds and a little wind and it’s just horrible even with a scope.

I will admit I never scoped a 5.45 or 5.56 AK.

AK’s certainly deserve an RDS-type sight. Add a 40 mag (or 75 rnd drum if you don’t mind the noise they make) and full auto and you have a great “chopper” for CQB and urban raids. A powerful sub-machinegun.

13

Absolutely, the AK sights are fantastic for CQB work, and in all my comparative shooting, that’s where they shine. That, and shooting on the move or from awkward positions at reasonably close distances. I also find them much easier to use in low light/no light compared to AR sights. But no comparison can be made between any irons and a red dot… The red dot is just so much more efficient. Any rifle can get by with irons and a good light, but I see no reason not to add a quality dot to a fighting rifle.

14

I went through that ‘young turk’ phase in my early 20s with a FAL.
Once I got a formal education on the AR, it was hard at that point to really care about or take other rifles seriously. Especially the crude AK. ‘Ruggedness’ is fine, but there are Kurds who would like to be reluably hitting things right now with their ‘rugged’ AKs.

I still hold a soft spot in my heart for the AR-18. To this day, that rifle gets more scorn in certain parts of the world. An AK isn’t so much a ‘bad guy’ weapon these days as it is ‘the people’s weapon’. A peasant gun.

But the AR-18 will always indelibly be either the Terminator cop killer rifle or the Widowmaker which was reviled in more than a few British punk songs. Gang of Four’s Armalite Rifle comes to mind.

Yet, even so, it was originally meant to be the American AK analog. For those who couldn’t forge aluminum, they could stamp steel.

But it simply wasn’t to be

15

Give that. 50gr varmint tipped .223 another try when you have more time and maybe when it cools off a bit.
Ive had really good luck with that ammo and its not expensive. Groups nice for American Eagle 50gr bullets.

16

I’d like to co-sign your letter of apology.

17

I disagree. I’ve just never had an AK that was as accurate as other rifles and I see iron sights just fine.

18

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19

regardless of how great his design was, i read that on one of his birthdays (or was it the anniversary of the ak47?), he was presented a bottle of vodka. The bottle was in the shape of an ak47 and when he received it, he flipped the **** out saying that it was a disgrace to history of the rifle.

Apparently he was an uptight prick.

20

I agree with you.

I have never had problems with my AK preforming as I want it to and i only run Iron sights with them. I also do think that AR’s and AK’s should NOT be compared like they always are. They were designed with COMPLETELY different goals in mind with very different price points. I have taken my AK to rifle classes a few times and i get crap for it every time, but when we start shooting everything is equal again. I am absolutely not saying i am better than everyone because im definitely not. But i sure as He11 have no problem beating and keeping up with the guys using AR’s.

when it really comes down to it its more about whose behind the rifle than what rifle it is.

FYI: I still love MY AR’s just as much as my AK’s…but for different reasons.