a plan to deregulate all controlled substances in the united states

General General Discussion
1

i want this thread to live so please be kind.

this is a challenge, thought experiment, fun exercise to see if we can actually create a real united states with real livable policies where controlled substances are less controlled.

since i’m the op of this thread i am saying bring any and all ideas.

back your views with how you interpret political, economical, individual, societal and other climates and considerations.

just to kick off the discussion i will pose a few questions.

on the topic of deregulating marijuana distribution and consumption.

does marijuana become like tobacco? would the marijuana companies be required to produce anti-marijuana advertising like the tobacco industry? are there health concerns (like lung cancer) that we as tax payers in the united states don’t want to be responsible for down the line? will there be an age limit on who is allowed to purchase marijuana as in the case of tobacco? will marijuana advertising be allowed to be targeted at children as it was ages ago in the case of tobacco? there are less addictive properties in marijuana than tobacco. will marijuana producers be allowed to enhance the addictiveness of marijuana with the use of caffeine or nicotine? will there be legal civil liability consequences for making such blends of marijuana?

what are the simple math numbers for marijuana? how much revenue would the industry generate on an annual basis? how much revenue would the industry generate for the government in terms of taxation? with the decreased need for budget allocated to marijuana enforcement and the increased revenue to the government from marijuana proceeds, what should the government do with this money? what taxes should be cut to supplement this new revenue stream?

on the topic of deregulating the possession, distribution and consumption of cocaine, methamphetamine and opiate derivatives.

do we allow all forms of the above mentioned drugs (i.e. crack, heroin, etc)? will these drugs be available without a prescription (currently opiates, cocaine and methamphetamine can be had with a prescription, but they are prohibitively rare)? currently you cannot get drugs like valium, vicodin, etc. without a presciption (however bogus the prescription), so making these drugs available without prescription is deregulating it further than other prescription drugs. what does a prescription or lack thereof do for the liability of the doctor or the manufacturing company? do we deregulate all medication? should all medication be available without the consultation and recommendation of a doctor? or should only the recreational drugs be afforded this deregulation? if there is not a total deregulation of all medicine then the dea would still exist to at least go after bogus prescriptions. will bogus prescriptions even be required if recreational drugs are more readily available?

to take a quick sideline on the prescription topic, is one of the goals of recreational drug legalization to allow recreational drug access to the poor? the rich can get whatever recreational drugs they want via bogus prescriptions and black market dealers. but with legalization, the mandating or not mandating a prescription dictates a big part of how accessible recreational drugs will be to the poor.

there are addictive properties in these drugs and that is what originally put them on the controlled substance list. the addictive properties will surely create liability problems for any potential manufacturer, distributor, prescriber etc. how do we fundamentally deal with this?

let’s do the simple math again on recreational drugs like cocaine, methamphetamine and opiate derivatives as with marijuana above.

other considerations.

we still have to deal with addicts and their poor decisions. do we take kids away from addicts or do we not? do we give healthcare to addicts or do we not? do we enhance punishments for making vehicular mistakes under the influence of recreational drugs like we do alcohol? how do we address the counterfeit producers of various substances? how do companies keep and protect their intellectual property when it comes to producing substances that have been produced on the black market so thoroughly? does the atf then go after bootleg meth? bootleg coke? bootleg morphine?

this is a whole new world we’re mapping here. please help address all these issues.

2

The simple answer is the same as any other industry.

Don’t provide health care at all…then you don’t have to worry about treating addicts.

The simple answer about why things like pot are illegal is because sending people to prison is an industry in the US, and pharma spends way too much to have the competition from deregulated illicit drugs.

3

I sat here for a minute trying to decide if I wanted to reply or not…

Then I posted a big long life story of sorts…then I deleted it…it might have been a little too much information.

In short…addictive drugs lead to violence…whether its over turf, money, drugs, women, or just because somebody is in the mood to fight…they always lead to violence.

And I did not come to that conclusion because of what I hear on the news…I came to that conclusion because I’ve lived in the middle of it my entire life (40 years).

When I was young it was moonshine and pot…then came pills…then coke…then crack (yes, we have it in the hills too)…then the worst of all, meth…its EVERYWHERE.

Pot should be legal…treated like alcohol as far as sobriety is concerned…but legal and unregulated.

4

Just as long as EVERY bastard who crashes a car while intoxicated, into someone sober - like me - and kills them, gets executed ON THE SPOT, INSTANTLY, upon failing their blood test.

Work for you? Works for ME. :mad:

5

I gave examples of other industries and the problems they would obviously face. so saying just like any other industry isn’t exactly an answer.

you criticize big pharma, who else would do what they do? how would they work in your perfect world?

and what if I am trying to find out which world can exist where putting people in prison isn’t a business? is that just impossible for your to conceive? are you not willing to participate or do you just not have real answers?

6

OP- I’m struggling with this one, given several discussions with the same theme and questions…

Medical marijuana and the 2nd Amendment. Disabled Vet denied gun. IMPORTANT UPDATE!
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=46504

For the first time, 50% support legalizing marijuana
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=91035

Feds legislate to legalize marijuana. 10th Amendment issue.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=83588

Latest Report on “The War on Drugs”-- Epic Fail!
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=82239

Are you in favor of the current war on drugs?
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=75296

CA to vote on legalization of marijuana for recreational use. UPDATE: Oakland
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=50297

7

The stories of people dying over drug deals gone wrong and such is the same crap that happened during prohibition. But I don’t see the Miller guy duking it out with the Budweiser delivery guy. Wonder why.

There are other unseen costs of the drug war, too, like if you want cough syrup that works you end up paying for a doctor visit and a trip to the pharmacy. If you want sinus medication that works, you at the very least get to have your purchase tracked.

The law of supply and demand works for drugs just like anything else. As costs rise, more people are inclined to become suppliers. These suppliers, in a black market, will fight over turf and profit.

8

People are prescribed stuff all the time that has awful side effects, is addicting, and/or has worse side effects than something like pot can help with minimal side effects.

DUI laws already include both prescription and illicit drugs.

Putting people in jail should be about justice and keeping society at large safe from people with a demonstrated criminal past. It should not be about making a buck because someone else did something wrong.

You don’t always have to have an answer for everything but you can at least tell when what you are doing now isn’t working. I have no faith in the current system to handle something like pot deregulation effectively.

Every industry should only involve gov as is minimally necessary. For all I care someone should be able to grow pot on their land and sell it off the side of the road. It’s up to each person to decide what is best for them.

9

Marijuana not that big of a deal as its already pretty common and its harmful effects are on par with alcohol. The harder drugs no way. Not worth the societal costs. Yes we could make money making it legal and taxing it but that does not make it right. Some drugs can screw people up on one use.
Pat

10

You have a case study with prohibition…you have demand with pot that is no different than booze. In fact there are studies that pot is the largest cash crop far and above anything we farm by ALOT!!

I have a bunch of le friends from local to fed & mil…I hate seeing any of them risking SWAT like raids over dope, but I am biased. I live in a war zone and work takes me across the border from time to time even with travel restrictions. I used to go hundred miles south with a compadre and a couple bird boys and compass looking for white wing dove to shoot without a care in the world. I would eat dinner at least 2-3 times a week in mex no less than 5 or 6 years ago with my wife and Dad.

Cartel del Gulfo got their start moving booze across the rio grande river…good gosh, let’s try something other than we are doing. It’s like trying to stop the wind from blowing with the demand??

My home has changed because of this and I will move north if any of my cards come into play…just hard to walk away from all the mfg connections, family and friends. Border life used to rock!!

Thank God the hunting and fishing is still good or I would go nuts!!

Can go on if you want the whole war on drugs is a joke story and tell you about a border fence that has a 1 mile gap along the thickest brush to keep it flowing, but nobody cares. More of the shit is grown here in the states than what comes from the cartels.

Total FUBAR…out.

11

Red Heat

Ivan Danko: Chinese find way. Right after revolution, they round up all drug dealers, all drug addicts, take them to public square, and shoot them in back of head.

Art Ridzik: Ah, it’d never work here. ****ing politicians wouldn’t go for it.

Ivan Danko: Shoot them first.

12

I would like any drug to be legal. I would also like health care providers the freedom to treat or not treat these people, which ever they decide, with no assistance from the government.

13

i don’t believe in the war on drugs. i’m rather dispassionate about the whole topic. but what i also don’t believe is how simple people paint the solution out to be. every action has consequences. every policy has unintended consequences. to think you can just paint with the broadest paint roller a steamrolled solution has to be utter arrogance and i challenge that arrogance.

to be honest i don’t feel like things would be very different if the war on drugs existed or if it didn’t. i think the broader problem lies in the complexity of modern society and the individualism that affluence creates. as people get richer they get more individualistic. why are drugs even perceived a problem, does anyone really actually care about the addicts? not really. more individualist people will want to keep their lives sanitary, they want someone else to clean up the addict’s mess. what’s the addicts mess? they themselves are surely a mess, but that’s addressed by removing them from the general population. what about the things that surround them? their children specifically, who takes them? this problems has existed since age old times. you can turn the kids into slaves, orphans that are adopted by people who will either treat them well or treat them poorly. the same options exist today, but today there is an additional option. people want their lives sanitary and they want the government to make their lives sanitary.

in small group social dynamics the responsibility would not be shoveled off on another that is unknown and the responsibility would not be diffuse. with the social dynamics of a nation, responsibility is very easy to make diffuse, government is easy to turn to and lay blame on or shirk responsibility to.

if drugs didn’t exist as a problem there would still be bad parenting, bad parents, bad people, crime, criminals, injustice and the like. without government there would just be less people specifically tasked to do something about it. does that mean it’s actually reassuring that people are on their toes about surveillance and law enforcement doing this and that? does that mean there is an overarching affect, people think twice before doing bad things? i don’t know if there’s any empirical evidence for that, but an interesting thought.

14

Are you on drugs? :stuck_out_tongue:

15

ILLEGAL drugs do. Prohibition didnt work and help lead to the rise organized crime. Nobody is out there killing each other over turf for a bottle of rum since you can buy it in the store.

16

The great society program, war on poverty isn’t exactly working either. See the trend. Our current direction with the war on terror will never end either. We will continue sliding down the police state mountain too.

17

No but plenty of people are still killing each other while under the influence of alcohol. Not saying prohibition was a good thing but there are costs either way. I frankly don’t think we should be wasting our time on marijuana but I have a big problem with allowing coke, meth, and the newer synthetic drugs to be legal. Too much risk.
Pat

18

This isn’t directed at you pat but I’m just thinking out loud… I don’t know anyone who thinks ya know if heroin was legal I would totally try and get me some of that.

Frankly I’m to the point where I don’t really care what people with themselves, you get hooked on something hardcore? Fine, not my problem I don’t want to pay for your repeated treatment so go die in the ditch. I take serious issue with the notion that these people are mentally ill and therefore have a right to treatment for their stupidity on my dime. Kill someone while driving under the influence? If found guilty you’ll hang. I certainly would not advocate for government regulating and allowing the formal manufacture and distribution of said substances or products however. Anytime we as a society and more so the government try to stop someone from doing something it never works.

19

What about texters?

20

If I were king…

All drugs would be legal and taxed. Use 75% of the collected taxes (including tobacco and liquor in this) treatment of addiction, welfare of the families affected and restitution to those impacted by those addicted (ie survivors of any confrontation with those addicted, be it robbery, car accident, etc). Monies to be distributed in reverse order of the above. The direct victims (car crash, robbery-nothing beyond returning them to their previous position, ie. no additional damages-win the lotto mentality) getting first priority, families second and what ever is left going to addiction treatment. Administration of programs to be paid out of the taxes collected. The remaining 25% would be used to reduce taxes on anyone not “in the system”. You don’t partake, you pay less income tax.
Free the employer to terminate anyone who tests positive for any drug in their system IF the employer so chooses. No repercussions to the employer for doing so if he has valid evidence. IF the employer knowingly chooses to keep a known (tested) addict in his employ, then the employer assumes all the associated costs of the employees addiction as listed above. Employers have the right to drug screen and reject or accept prior to employment and the right to randomly test as they deem appropriate.
Test all welfare recipients to the same standards as if they are employees of the state. Test positive, no financial help but addiction treatment is available.
Anyone caught in possession of a contraband drug (ie non-taxed), mandatory life sentence (think life in a tent in AZ, Sheriff Joe).
All drugs regulated and tagged with organic markers, issued by approved and licensed outlets.
Elected officials, those appointed by elected officials and all government employees must have regular scheduled and random testing with all results published for public viewing.
Research and establish impairment standards based factors such as age, race, gender, weight. No one size fits all standard. Then reduce the standard by 20%. If someone wants to test themselves for a higher tolerance/impairment level exemption, then they could seek a authorized establishment and self pay to show that individual has a higher (or lower) tolerance and be “licensed” for a period of one year with renewal at re test.

Harsh-yes. Anyone who wanted to partake would have to be responsible for their actions.
Naive-probably. I’m sure there are a lot of things missed or unforeseen situations/unintended consequences.
Workable-doubtful.

To the OP; I’m not a big fan of altering reality through drug usage. I understand why people do it. I’ve also seen what they have done to friends and family. My father died of lung cancer. I watched as a co-worker back in the early ‘70’s smoke pot to excess and slowly lost all this mental capacities (the boss knew he smoked, and I suspect the boss smoked pot also-admitted as such, but never saw any evidence). Remember back then it was “cool” to smoke pot. My brother in law is sitting in jail for DUI (blew a .3-yeah a functional (mostly) alcoholic). He’s been in and out of treatment and near death many times, but still keeps drinking. Very sad, nice guy, brilliant at what he did, albeit only for a couple of hours a day. The rest of the time, just killin’ the pain. I’ve been run off the road by drunk drivers.
I also understand that it’s not an easy problem to solve, but to me it all comes down to the individual. Yes, some have the “addiction gene”. But to me that’s not a viable excuse. Seems that we as a society are sympathetic to those who are addicts. “Poor drunk” and “such a sad ending”. There are those who are self destructive among us and no amount of intervention will prevent their downward spiral. We need to stop enabling them. Whatever the addiction, be it welfare, drugs, power.