A clean self-defense shoot...by a pot grower

General General Discussion
1

Wow this story is stranger than fiction. At first I thought it would be one of those positive examples of a valid self-defense shooting. Two heavily armed guys break into a house, homeowner kills them both, saving himself and his 9 y.o. son.

Except for one thing: he has an illegal pot operation in his home. And except for one more thing: it happened the day that pot became “legal” in WA state. I suspect that won’t help him in the end. Pot growers are still going to be regulated by the state to keep it “safe.” :slight_smile:

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/Police-2-intruders-shot-killed-at-marijuana-grow-house--182391481.html

2

Yeah protecting your kid and home ain’t exactly the same as protecting your crack house so it’s a good idea to not call the crack house home.

If it wasn’t a grow house, he probably wouldn’t have gotten hit in the first place. They were there for drugs and money from drugs.

3

So? People break into houses for all kinds of reasons…

4

Exactly. Looks like a decent pad, and relatively isolated. Which means there’s loot to be had along with a lower chance of getting caught.

Say someone was having an illegal poker game in their domicile, does that mean they don’t have a right to defend themselves?

5

I wonder how this is going to play out? Numerous things come to mind here. One of them being “endangering the welfare of a child” among other things.

6

Where are Cheech and Chong when you really need 'em?

:jester:

7

It doesn’t state anywhere in the article that this was a “Crack House”. He was growing pot. Not apples to apples…

So pot growers have no right to self defense?

What does it matter the object the criminals were going to steal was pot VS. car or other such object?

What if you were at home drunk and had to shoot an intruder- would you have no right to self defense because you were drunk and it is clearly against the law (In most jurisdictions) to handle a firearm as such?

What about prozac or valium? Had surgery and are on oxyconton? What if you take sleeping pills? NO RIGHT TO SELF DEFENSE?

I’m not saying the guy isn’t and idiot, he clearly is with a child in a grow house- that is dumb shit right there.

But how do “rights” magically go away in “certain circumstances” such as these?

My understanding is that a “Right” is just that A FUCKING RIGHT. As in you cannot take it away, you cannot limit it, you cannot dole out permissionto utilize a “Right”.

We have erroded our rights into permissions granted by our nanny-state. It is disgusting.

I still cannot get over LEO’s enforcing Concealed carry laws. It is clearly in violation of 2A- regardless of what SCOTUS says or not. The right to bear arms is just that, the right to bear them. LEO’s take the constitutional oath, and enforcing unconstitutional laws is in direct violation of that oath, of our founding fathers, and of our natural born rights. (Any LEO who would give me their perspective here- it would be greatly appreciated)

I’m sick of the “Groups” who get certain “rights” and other “Groups” cannot have certain “rights” because of ______ (Insert ignorant fuzzy feeling lolli-pop/butterfly BS here).

Just because someone grows a naturally occuring plant doesn’t mean they should be stripped of natural born/constitutional rights.

How some of you (Not speaking to anyone in particular, I just have a bad tatse in my mouth form the other thread where the wheelchair ridden gentleman murdered someone and people were calling for limits on voting and concealed carry. FUCKING BULLSHIT!) can justify the striupping of rights is well beyond my understanding.

“The world has moved on…”

8

Yep. People have been killed over a pair of Air Jordan’s in the ghetto. Maybe we should ban shoes or self defense if wearing expensive shoes because you’re just asking to get mugged and killed over a pair of shoes. :rolleyes:

9

This one will be intersting to watch playout for sure.

10

Despite weed being legal, it sounds like this guy was WAY over the legal “ounce” limit and growing is still illegal. So basically he was protecting an illegal enterprise and self defense laws don’t apply in the same way as with regular folks.

That is why FL “stand your ground” laws are predicated on the defender having not been engaged in any unlawful activity. Otherwise home invaders could use “stand your ground” laws for their defense.

And that is also why IF you are going to have an illegal grow house it is wise NOT to live in it with your family because you won’t have the same legal grounds to protect yourself as you would if you maintained a separate residence.

Not to mention the entire “put your kid at undue risk by living in a drug house” thing.

11

Feel free to substitute drug house.

12

Possibly. Along the same lines as running a brothel. Not really the same threat as other criminal activity but it may eliminate or lessen your right to defend yourself or the property. This is primarily due to the distinct possibility it will be subject to a police raid.

Criminals simply are NOT equal to lawful home defenders.

13

I would totally smoke weed if it was legal here. On my days off.

14

Meh. Only has the stigma it does because it’s been illegal for so long. What about an alcoholics house or cigarette smokers house?

My hope is one day pot growing doesn’t mean you can’t defend your famlily from thieves. Seems like blaming the rape victim for their choice of attire instead of the perp. Thieving is still thieving even if the thing they were there to steal is illegal.

15

Isn’t every house a “Drug House” by default?

Tylenol, Viagra, Ibuprofen, Naproxen Sodium, Valium, Prozac, Xanax, Propecia, Nuprin(liitle- yellow- different), vicoden, percoset, caffeine, alcohol, tobacco , et alii…

All are drugs. All of us have at least one or more of these in our homes. All can be good for you or bad for you depending upon specific use.

All of us live in “drug houses”; it is just “acceptable” “drugs” by societys definition (Society and our Gummint are way off base on a lot of what is accepted VS. what is not; very inconsistent).

I’m against taking away peoples rights when they are not doing anything wrong, and not hurting anyone.

To me- taking away someones rights is more damaging to the individual and society as a whole than the growing of the pot in the first place. IT is an effing plant that grows everywhere naturally- that has very few negtative effects (Other than the laws and punishment prescribed by society) compared to the list I gave above for Chrissake.

16

Whatever your position on pot the guy put his family in danger.
“Two heavily armed intruders…” are not looking for Tylenol. They were looking for the cash that goes with the drug trade.

17

The difference is currently it isn’t ILLEGAL for a rape victim to dress like a disco whore, but it IS illegal to have a grow house. Personally I could almost “give a shit” about weed, I’m just noting what the laws are currently. I have similar views about brothels, I think they should be legal in zoned areas but shouldn’t be in residential areas where they put a neighborhood at risk. And only a seriously fucked up person would raise their children in either one of them.

The difference is of course “legal” vs. “illegal” drugs and the criminal element that is drawn to the latter. And I don’t worry about the rights of people engaged in criminal activity, that is what defense lawyers are for. This is why I don’t have 100 home built machine guns. If “I” can’t play, fuck people with grow houses. I also don’t think the right to “grow and sell” narcotics is as specifically protected as the right to have arms “comparable to a standing military” so I’m not seeing a big “rights” issue either.

Again, I personally don’t care. I think there should be the equivalent to Opium houses where people can go do whatever fucking drug they want but they can’t leave until they are sober. Also these places shouldn’t be anywhere near residential areas.

18

I’m probably going to hurt some feelings here. I think some of you truly need to sit back and think before you type.

Comparing an illegal grow operation (regardless of what your feelings are about pot) to Tylenol or other approved drugs is sheer nonsense. It’s like saying it’s ok to have explosives in your basement because you disagree with the government and think it should be legal.

Again, doesn’t matter what you think, it’s illegal without the proper permits, licenses and storage.

The fact is that had he not been growing the pot in his home for distribution (and I’ll bet if they dig into finances they will find more stuff) then the situation wouldn’t have occurred. They knew what they were looking for and got unlucky. Had the situation been different and his son was killed in the cross fire I can only imagine a bunch of our members here would have been screaming for the dad to be carted off for putting him in danger.

I would also like to know who here thinks that it is ok to have an illegal grow operation in the same place you have your family. Please be honest.

19

Meh…

If it was a clean shoot, call it a clean shoot and be done with it. Prosecute him on the drugs and child endangerment and call it good. While I have little sympathy for the predicament father pot grower finds himself in, I have even less for two dead dirtbags who thought it was OK to commit an armed home invasion.

Could any of you honestly send the guy to prison for life over this?

20

Plenty of states have no problem doing just that.

10-20-Life laws come to mind.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10-20-Life

So if you are engaged in criminal activity, don’t mix guns.

Again, this is why I don’t have 100 unregistered machine guns even though I’d love to have 100 more machine guns.