I’ve got a Deltapoint on an M&P9…haven’t had the opportunity to run it in a class yet but like others are saying it makes distance shooting easy.
In dryfire practice (at like 7 to 10 yards) I’ve been really working on focusing on the target and getting my press out consistent and if I do it right the dot obviously appears at what I’m focusing on. Still not consistent enough but that’s what practice is for.
Mine rides in an Atomic Dog Holster…I just had to tell Brian the height of the front suppressor sight when I ordered it so he could make sure it’d fit right.
I had a Glock 24 loooong slide with a J-Point on it years ago. It was fun for showing off hitting bowling pins at 100yds, but I found the up-close stuff much slower. I was constantly trying to find the dot.
With the taller ‘suppressor’ sights now available, I would like to try a setup where the RDS is melted in and co-witnesses with the irons. I imagine that you could just default back to irons close-up, but I’d have to do some shooting to see for myself.
Still I don’t think this has matured enough for me to mount it on a combat handgun. For plinking and hunting, definitely.
I found that im about equal on times and speeds with irons and rmr
i treat it like anything else i look to the target or threat i drive the gun to my eyes gtg dot is there…
as for white out i told guys this years ago about it and trijicon that is part of the reason the adjustable rmr was released
That is interesting. I didn’t have that issue when doing dark house shoots but we were doing Harries and FBI techniques with lights and not weapon-mounted, so maybe my dot had more time to adjust to the change in brightness because it took a split second longer for the flashlight to align with point of aim of the gun? I had an X300 but didn’t run it on that drill.
One of my instructors shined a light from behind me directly into the window in an attempt to make the dot wash out but it didn’t. I’m curious if Trijicon made some revisions to the firmware of the auto brightness adjustment because the dot on mine seemed ideal in all lighting conditions in my particular experience.
At the recent Pat McNamara TAPS course, I had the opportunity to put 800 rounds through an M&P45 w/8 MOA RMR02. The pistol performed very well at both close range high speed targets, as well as precision shooting at ranges out to 50 yards.
We shot the 500 point aggregate 3 times and the M&P45 allowed me to shoot above 450 each time. Likewise, it proved capable at several speed events, including putting 9 shots into the A-zone in 4 sec at 7 yards, starting from the holster. The hardest part of using a slide mounted RDS for me remains consistently rapidly acquiring the red dot during the press out–I am getting better, but feel I can still improve in this area. I think having a bright color front iron sight or dot on the front iron sight may aid this task compared to using just a plain black front sight. I am going to do more experimentation with this and see how things go.
Earlier this year I shot a 2010 gen 3 G19 RTF 2 equipped with a Trijicon 8 MOA RMR02 in a “Shooting on the Move” class with no problems related to the pistol or RDS.
FWIW, I have never had a problem with the red dot washing out in any lighting condition using an RMR02–I have had some issues with this problem when trying the self-illuminating RMR’s and Deltapoints.
I have been thinking about getting an RMR for my g19. But I do not like the new style, that goofy shape of the top draws my eye to it instead od the window. So my alternative to the RMR is the doctor optic with 4 MOA dot. Does anyone have any experience running one of these on a pistol? Is it as rugged and reliable as an RMR? Another reason I’m considering the doctor optic is because it seems shorter and narrower then the RMR, plus my shop can get them for half the price of the trijicon. So anyone got input on these or opinions?
thanks
Joe
I realize One Source recommends the 8 MOA model and a few of you are utilizing that particular one. However, after reading one of the responses about the RD washing out is there another one that you all would recommend instead?
On the press out, I’ve tried to stop looking for the dot and just work on natural POA and viola the dot seems to appear. If I don’t see the dot, I’m trying to stop from fishing for it and just transition to the irons, and as I bring those to bear, the dot will appear. I’m really trying to ingrain the second one for times like where the dot washes out or if it were to fail all together I’m not in a 'Were’s Waldo" fruitless search for a dot that won’t appear.
With the adjustable LED sights, how does that really work when powder is burning and the clock is ticking??? Are you guys setting a bit higher than you really need and then dialing it back? Can you manipulate it in the holster- with the thought that you are going to need more or less light? I guess we do it all the time with T-1s on carbines, it just seems to me like handguns are usually more of a pressing need, and they are less accesible to fidget with before they are drawn. Just trying to wrap my head around it.
nobody knows–Don Lazzarini and some of the older SWAT officers used the Dr. Optic on their handguns about a decade ago–it is no where near as robust as the RMR and would not be considered a good option for anything but a playgun plinker.
Logicalpath–We have NEVER observed a problem with RD washout using slide mounted RMR02’s in a wide variety of lighting conditions for over a year now. As noted above, we have seen washout problems with slide mounted RDS using mRDS optics OTHER than the RMR02.
FromMyColdDeadHand–While I like the adjustable RMR-A for use on long guns, so far I am NOT a fan of the RMR-A for slide mounted RDS use on duty handguns, as previously discussed. With pistols carried in exposed duty holsters, multiple officers complained of discovering no dot or a dim dot after carrying the pistols for several hours. Likewise, tactical team officers running 6004’s found dot settings altered during drills on the range and in the shoot house. There were quite a few instances where folks doing malfunction clearances discovered their dot settings had inadvertently changed. Recoil was not the issue, because it happened in pistols that were not shot–just sitting in holsters during the course of the day’s duties. I suspect the problem is the side of the sight getting bumped while getting in and out of vehicles multiple times each day, bumping into doorways, and wacking the edge of the holster on various objects. Worn in a holster that covers the RDS, like the superb Fricke Seraphim, I suspect the RMR-A might be protected enough to not suffer from many of these issues.
My (limited) experience tells me not to use same colour for front sight as it is for dot. In speed and stress situation it is easy to take front sight as a dot.
I also found out that using closed (tube type) RDS makes it easier to consistently find dot on press out (I used Micro T1 on Glock slide mount), but all seems to be matter of training.
Yes they are. For carry - sure. For duty? Maybe a bit, maybe OK - depends on personal preference I think. Biggest problem is than Micro mounting makes very hard to do slide “melt in” installation.
Anyway, I was just testing it with competition use in mind and found that I can acquire dot and keep it for follow up much easier with T1 than I did on Fastfire or even “big screen” C-More.
I’ve been MIA from the forums for awhile now but I figured I’d give an AAR on this subject. Several weeks ago I received my slide back from OneSourceTactical(I’ll complain about them in a minute) and took my G19 for a whirl. I would say that the RMR has changed my shooting completely. Being left eye dominant and right handed really created some fundamental problems for me early on. However with the RMR those issues are erased and shooting a pistol is actually enjoyable now. As some have expressed, there are some challenges with sight picture alignment but IMO it’s something that trigger time and focused training will fix.
Now to my complaints, initially I was telling people that OneSourceTactical was a horrible company to deal with but they did good work. Well that has changed to they’re just a horrible company to deal with period. Before paying for the services I called to ask a few questions, the girl I spoke to answered them all adequately and I then asked if I sent the slide overnight how long it would take to return(the site says up to 8 weeks). She said that they could probably have it back to me in two weeks. So I spent about 60.00 having it shipped overnight, when I called the next day to verify I was told that the armorer just left on vacation. He was expected to return in two weeks, I was a bothered but it wasn’t “the end of the world”. At the four week mark I called back to check in on the status, another girl tells me the following, “well I’m not really supposed to tell you this but the armorer actually quit and we’ve been trying someone new out. It looks like he’s going to be approved this week and then he’ll start working on slides.” That’s when I went ape sht on the phone and demanded to speak to a supervisor. They said no one was available and someone would get back to me in a few days. In the end the manager of OneSourceTactical pretty much sht on my life and did nothing to remedy the situation. My last transmission(which I waited to send for my slide to arrive back to me) was something to the effect that I could never envision a situation where I would do business with them again.
That said, initially I was bragging about the work they do but their customer service was terrible. After taking the T.A.Ps class a couple of weeks ago I got to see OneSourceTactical craftsmanship under pressure. One of the screws was sitting on top of the RMR rolling around. This was after only 200 or so rounds, I was very disappointed, it really did affect my personal experience during the class(explained in the “failing fast” portion of that course review). So not only do they have what I would characterize as the worst customer service I have experienced to-date, apparently the armorer they found as a replacement SUCKS!
My carry gun, it’s my 4th RDS Equipped M&P, and I will never be going back to irons. I ran under a 4.5s FAST drill with a RDS equipped 9Pro. It’s all about time on the gun to get used to it.
I carry this in a custom secret city weaponeers holster.
