A Beginner Question? Are Complete Rifles That Important?

AR/M4 AR General Discussion
1

Hi, my first post here. I’ve been reading and lurking for some time, but couldn’t really find much on this particular issue.

I know that on M4C, there are clear opinions on “top quality” rifles and lower tier rifles. For example, Colt, DD, Noveske, LMT, KAC, and one or two others are often cited as top quality guns, while brands like S&W, Bushmaster, etc. are usually looked upon as inferior.

I have no particular issue with that; I’ll learn from you all as I go.

What I’m wondering about, however, is just how important the complete rifle from a particular manufacturer is vs. the complete upper. Quite a few of the key parts for top-quality performance that people cite are in the upper: gas key, BCG, charging handle, the barrel, etc. The lower, except for the trigger and the stock, isn’t necessarily examined with the same intensity.

For example, I have a Daniel Defense complete upper on a lower I built (well, had built for me) on Aero Precision + DPMS LPK + MOE stock. Everything is milspec, the upper fits nicely, it works. I know I can upgrade the lower pretty easily with parts I can still find on store shelves – e.g., trigger, buffer, stock, etc. But it isn’t a complete rifle.

Given the price insanity, I can sell this weapon plus a lower-quality AR (like a Bushmaster) for enough cash to buy a complete quality M4 (Colt, DD, LMT, etc.) and still have money left over for ammo, magazines, optics, etc.

Is there a huge practical difference between a complete rifle from a company vs. a hybrid with a complete upper from that company mated to a lower that isn’t?

Thanks for any thoughts you may have on this topic.

2

Complete rifles tend to fetch more than Franken-guns. However, in the current climate it may not matter to someone who didn’t plan ahead.

Not a bad plan as long as you can find the gun you’re looking for when it’s all said and done.

EDIT: just noticed you mentioned you built the lower which I assume was originally an 80%. I believe there are some legal issues when selling an 80% lower. Check it out first.

3

As long as your gun runs I’d say keep it. I built my lower (spikes tactical stripped lower+PSA LBK) and threw a complete BCM upper on it and it runs like a raped ape. 1400 rounds thus far with only one FTF and that was on some crappy Wolf before I knew to really run her wet. Just my opinion though, it all comes down to what you want.

4

While true, I personally wouldn’t do anything if I were you until you know for sure that you can get your hands on one of those high quality AR’s. The way things are going, that’s not an easy task. That being said, I wouldn’t worry about it if I were you. You’re right, the upper contains most of the critical parts. The biggest issue I can think of with lowers is whether different mags will drop free or not. I’ve heard good things about Aero lowers so you should be fine. I would’ve picked a different brand for the LPK, but you’ve already got it so you might as well shoot it until something breaks, if it does. Do make sure your castle nut is staked though.

5

What is practical is based on the user, whether the user wants to, or is capable, or even cares to assemble a functioning rifle from scratch.

6

In this climate, you can still sell your franken-gun for a decent price, or even part it out, but the current relative cost of a ‘big name’ complete rifle is going to make it impractical, IMO.

If you built it to shoot it, keep it.

7

If you bought top end parts and have tested it, then as long as you’re not worried about resale it’ll be as good as a factory rifle for most purposes.

I built an A1/M4 hybrid carbine in 09 and shot the snot out of it before I sold it… about 5000 rounds through it without any malfunctions that weren’t magazine related.

I used BCM, CMMG, Colt, and LMT parts in it. Properly lubricated it just ran and ran and ran.

I trusted it to function 100%.

If you can say that, then don’t worry about the rollmark on the lower receiver.

8

Thanks for the responses. I built this to keep as one of my SHTF guns and range toys and really have no plans to sell it. It sounds like from a functional standpoint, I shouldn’t be worried about reliability and such with my frankengun, since the upper is quality.

As I said, I do plan on upgrading pieces of the lower as those parts seem unaffected by the current craze.

9

Is your castle nut staked?

10

Most of your higher quality guns usually come with a higher weight (solid weight) buffer. Like a H1 or H2.

The other most important thing is castle nut staking. Has to be done. I’ve seen a reciever extension try to strip itself from a lower on a DPMS. Luckily a buddy of mine pointed this out to the guy, and at this point was salvageable with a new extension/buffer tube. Btw, this was an old carbine of mine that I had staked, but after he had removed the nut to whatever reason, failed to restake it.

Now as for a lower, I wouldn’t bother as long as it works, mags drop free, and parts fit properly on it. The roll mark isn’t everything, especially in a climate like we are experiencing now.

Granted I’m not going to tell you there isn’t a difference in some of the lower parts. Castle nuts for example, I had a no name, a DPMS, a BCM and Colt. I noticed they all became progressively heavier and one could tell the difference in quality. The BCM and Colt being steps ahead of the other two. The Colt is now on my frankenM4gery.

Only thing I’d recommend is possibly messing with the buffer, stake the castle nut, and shoot it!! Maybe, if you could find one, I’d recommend a Vltor A5 system. Could be pieced together the way I did.

Worry less about the name on things and focus more on function. Having a good barrel, and bolt … You’re leagues ahead of “inferior” carbines.

11

Not yet, but it will be. The only reason it isn’t is because I want to install a new sling attachment endplate (probably Magpul ASAP). As soon as that’s done, it’ll get staked properly.

12

For sure, this will be done as soon as the new endplate/sling attachment goes in. :slight_smile:

Only thing I’d recommend is possibly messing with the buffer, stake the castle nut, and shoot it!! Maybe, if you could find one, I’d recommend a Vltor A5 system. Could be pieced together the way I did.

Worry less about the name on things and focus more on function. Having a good barrel, and bolt … You’re leagues ahead of “inferior” carbines.

Thanks – reminds me that I have to order a new H1 buffer. The one that came with the extension tube is… subpar.

13

I wouldn’t say that they are inferior but they are different in classification.

Different tiers

14

Well my S&W lower works well, the castle nut was staked, all mags have worked. But I have a different buffer spring, buffer, and trigger.

I do not care that my rifle is not a complete rifle. First, I am not planning on selling it, EVER. Second, it is “customized,” to make it work for me.

15

My 1st AR was a frankengun but of good quality. LMT lower with Geissele trigger, UBR stock and a complete BCM 14.5" upper. Couldn’t ask for a better weapon for my 1st AR. Never had a single problem period. My 2nd AR is a complete weapon but that was becasue I decided to get a factory SBR. I settled on a Noveske 10.5" SBR and love it. Wouldnt think about selling either of them.

16

My two ARs are “Frankenguns”, Mega Forged lowers.

But with quality parts, they can stand with the rest. Like Noveske complete uppers, Geissele SSA triggers, Noveske 60 ambi-safeties, and quality furniture & optics.

As long as you have a quality lower, you can make the rifle whatever you want.

17

I bought my first gun, now i wish i would have built… same price could have had a better gun instead of reworking mine over time, to each his own tho

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

18

There is a definitely parts on the AR that matter. The roll stamp isn’t one of them as long as the upper and lower are within spec.

If your mags drop free and everything assembled as it should (i. e. You didn’t pound pieces into place) you should be and within spec. Just upgrade the internals as you can.

19

That was my though - when I look at what it would take to get a Noveske Switchblock / Light Carbine 14.5 pinned to 16 rifle - $2550 on the website

I probably have no more than $2100 into my build (minus optics) and have a Geissele SSA to boot. That is a complete Noveske upper, Mega lower, LPK plus upgrade to SSA & Noveske ambi 60 safety, Magpul furniture and MBUS.

Granted there is something cool about a complete rifle, assuming of course you like what comes with it (trigger, sights, furniture).

I thought about just buying a Noveske Chainsaw lower to make it all match, but even at the time ($225) that money was better off elsewhere.

Love my Noveske upper and I’m trying to rebuild my SBR with Noveske barrel and MUR.

20

I have the same situation. Same lowers, same uppers. I did a fair amount of research and the consensus seems to be that Areoprecision lowers are just fine. The only difference is that I used Daniel Defense LPKs in mine. I only recently finished building them, so I have not shot enough rounds through them to say they are perfect, but so far so good.

After you put a few hundred rounds through it, I think you can call it good. If I were you, I’d replace the LPK when you can find one from a good source, but other than that, I think you’ll be happy with it. I’m sure happy with mine.

BTW, don’t feel bad. I haven’t staked my castle nut yet either and for the exact same reason. Having a hell-uv-a-time finding QD end plates.