I have loaded both 124 gr remington fmj rn and berrys 124 gr plated rn.
Both loaded with 4.3 gr of win. 231 at 1.135 , 1.140 and 1.150. The 1.150 is what fed. and blazer brass seem to be and my glock 19 seems to shoot them well in 115 gr.
My problem is they seem to shoot high about 3 inches(the 124gr). I normally shoot 115 gr factory,but 124gr is what i could find easly to reload. Ive changed my grip and trigger pull since shooting the glock compared to my 1911 ive been shooting for 25 years,berreta 92f as duty weapon before that. I noticed i had the dot a little high in the box(glock sights),lowered it into the box and of course that helped.
When i load the 115gr American eagle back in it,it seemed alot better.
Just fyi my crimp on the fmj was set up per lee fcd instructions of touching round and then a half turn down for light crimp, and on berrys almost a half turn. Both shot well,no keyhole issues. The berrys were a little hot (4.3gr)per winchester data of 4.4 max. at 1.150. Other fmj rounds loaded per manual date of 4.0 start and 4.5 max.
I cant figure out if its me or the loads. I normally shoot at 10 and 20 yards or so at a quarter size target.
I don’t see a question in your post, so if I am understanding this correctly, you are stating how he POI moves around with different loads. Yes, it is possible for heavy bullets to impact above/below/left/right of lighter bullets. Gravity is not the only factor at play in ballistics. Barrel harmonics play a huge role, even if it is a 4" barrel.
Also, you do not need to crimp an auto-loader pistol round to retain the bullet. The crimp is only to remove the bell. The bullet is likely being deformed when you crimp it, which could be attributing to your issue.
Yes, thats what iam asking could it be my loads going high for some reason?
I only put a light crimp as stated. Do you meen to crimp even less? Basically no crimp? Only enough to remove bell of course. I sat down with a factory load and the crimp doesnt seem more than theirs.
Maybe on the berry bullets i could have gone a little less and will next time. First time shooting berrys and was a little leary of them altho they are better than the remington as far as each bullets being close to each other size wise.
Not sure how much this applies to pistol, so bear with me.
When I shoot free recoil, heavier bullets will impact higher than lighter bullets when fired at the same distance. When I first started shooting free recoil (this is in IBS) and found this “phenomenon” a fellow shooter explained it to me this way:
The heavier bullet takes slightly longer to exit the barrel, as such, the gun has more time to recoil before the bullet is past the muzzle, causing your shots to impact higher on the target.
You may be experiencing something similar with your Glock, with the slide acting as the free recoiling part of the gun, causing more muzzle flip to have occured at the time your heavier bullet exits the barrel than with a lighter bullet.
This is of course pure speculation on my part, and may only make sense to me because of my own experiences.
Yes, what you describe is typical. How high depends on many things, how you hold the pistol, type of pistol, how big or small you are, etc, etc.
Also, the recoil from a heavier bullet is greater.
If you have ever tried to shoot an Enfield No 2 with anything other than 180 - 200 grain bullets, you will have seen one of the worst examples of this.
Thanks, i will try and adjust. Iam not having any other issues so far with my 9mm reloads iam gona try and knock out some more for this week if it will stop storming long enough central tx weather has been crazy this year so far.
A semi-automatic pistol is not a revolver. The barrel harmonics and recoil vectors of semi-automatic pistols can interact in unpredictable ways. The only way to know what the change in the POI will be when firing a different load from any particular semi-automatic pistol, is to shoot that load from that particular semi-automatic pistol.
The pic below shows a 10-shot group that I fired from my Glock 19 at a distance of 25 yards using one of my 124 grain hand-loads. The group is pretty well centered on the B-8 target.
The next 10-shot group pictured was fired shortly after the first group, from the same Glock 19, only this time the ammunition used was Federal’s 147 grain HST. This group is centered 4.2 MOA to the right of, and 3.1 MOA lower than, the first group.
This is what i was expecting outa a heavier bullet. Nice group man.
Iam loading up some at 4.1 and 4.2gr of win 231 (berrys 124g bullet) to test this week
If you have the Lee 4 die set with the factory crimp die being the 4th die, try this. Set the factory crimp die aside and use the seater die only. Correctly adjusted, it will seat and then iron out case flare. This die has a taper crimp section that will remove flare and seat the bullet at the same time. Your Berry’s bullet is a plated lead bullet and not a true jacketed bullet. Therefore, the factory crimp die may distort(by swaging down)the bullet.
Remove the barrel and use it as a gauge by placing loaded rounds into chamber. They should drop in and fall out freely. If not adjust the seater die down very slightly until bullets fit the chamber. Remember that by adjusting the die down, you are increasing “crimp pressure”. When lowering the seater die, first you must screw the seater stem up. Once crimp is adjusted, screw the stem down onto the bullet.
Semi auto rounds like .380, 9mm, and .45 use the case mouth for head spacing so theoretically we don’t crimp them as you would a revolver round. The so-called crimp die for these uses a taper crimp section to remove flare and gently tighten the case around the length of the bullet–depending on how you adjust the die.
When reloading these rounds, we often say crimp but don’t really mean crimp like with revolver rounds.
Glock point of impact can vary according to shooter’s grip. My Glocks over the years have always printed high. Before your next shooting session thoroughly clean the barrel. Plated bullets are lead bullets and may not shoot superior groups in your Glock.
Thanks,i think this will be my last box of berrys. I think i will go back to hornaday or the cheap remington green bag bullets,their not very good but at least they have a jacket,iam just shooting paper anyways to get outa the house.
The berrys are a nice bullet though and price wise compared to the hornady they are a great deal. They have a lot better tolerance than the remington bullets’ which i think are nothing more than armscore packeged for Remington. I need to find some FMJ RN that perform well but are a little cheaper than the hornaday.
Maybe i should post that for these plinkers iam useing mixed brass that i pick up at the range IF it looks nice.
Masan nailed it. Try a hotter load recipe and there’s a good chance your poi will come down. Will likely need a different (slower) powder to speed things up a bit. For me 6.7 of aa#5, Montana gold 124 HP, 1.130 oal gives me 1120fps in a g17, 1164 fps in a rock river 1911 5").
I’d bet 4.3 of 231, 1.150" is way slower and hence, hits higher. In your g19 I’d guess a touch under 1000 fps
You will also likely find that the faster loads are way more accurate.
Applying too much crimp regardless of the die can mess up bullets. How can you say the seater die (which will do anything from a slight taper to a roll crimp :eek: according to Lee) is any better than the FCD for crimping?
Light crimp with the seater die versus light crimp with the FCD. I personally would rely more on the FCD than the seater die. Maybe he just needs to back off his FCD crimp.
I’m not trying to start a stink, just curious how you arrived at this conclusion.
The Lee die in question is a carbide factory crimp die and has two functional parts: crimping section and resize section. The user can adjust the crimp section. The bottom part of the die contains a carbide ring. This ring resizes the case(of the loaded rd)to reduce its outside diameter to a “magical” industry dimension. In 9mm, a case loaded with a .356, .357, or .358 lead bullet will be resized to have the same outside diameter of a factory jacketed round. So, the larger lead bullet will be reduced in size so that the case will have the factory dimension.
Some 9mm barrels are so oversize that a much larger diameter lead bullet must be used to achieve accuracy goals and reduce leading.
Ive found better luck with the berrys bullet setting the crimp to not quite a half turn and useing 4.2gr of win231… 4.4 is max at 1.150 useing winchester data. 4.1 shot just like American eagle,left the cases sooty. I guess not enough powder to seal the chamber,but shot well.
Bumped it to 4.2gr,a little hotter and hot enough to seal the chamber better. Just loaded up another 40 rounds for tomorrow will test again then,but seemed to shoot well outa my glock 19.
A half turn as stated by lee for a light crimp put a very very small crimp ring around the berry bullet,after backing it off a bit, it should be better worked great last time. Last step is checking each round in a wilson pistol maxx gauge.
I though the resizing ring in the lee fcd was to remove any bulges in the case…?
Strange enough the 4.2 charge seemed hotter than the 4.3 charge…
