This is sad, and makes me wonder if there is a better way we should explore.
Clearly he was brandishing, and there is not enough detail to know if he took action, decided to “suicide by cop”, or what.
I’ll give benefit of doubt that the leos had sufficient legal cause, etc. And that the landlord had the right to evict him.
I’m just thinking out loud if there is not a better way to handle situations like this. Especially when it’s mental health issues. Something other than “he’s not giving up, take him down”
At least this guy was armed. The really troubling ones are the unarmed mental health ones, or when they had a knife but were 50 yards from anyone else, etc.
“Miami-Dade police officers had rushed to the home after receiving a call of an armed man threatening to kill himself.” Sounds like a suicide by cop event. The man deserved better.
I don’t see what they could have done differently. As far the landlords right to evict him/police legal cause, the police weren’t there serving an evicition notice they were responding to the call of an armed man threatening suicide. The evicition process was ongoing and in my opinion justified. According to their lawsuit he was letting his service dogs out without a leash and one of them attacked and injured another tenant. They also attempted mediation first and that failed, I’d say they were warranted to proceed with evicition.
I’m willing to bet they were not service dogs which is why the eviction process was allowed to escalate. Seems like an irrevalant detail but combined with the one dogs previous attack is a significant detail. https://adata.org/publication/service-animals-booklet
You should look into that more. That guy was not fired for not shooting. He was fired because he escalated the situation which caused the shooting. Plus he had several other issues of bad judgement previously.
Should have never come to this. If we are going to LIBERALLY dole out social services, honorably discharged combat vets in need should be at the top of the list. That’s my effin’ dream.
Sometimes the best thing is to give these kind of things time and create space between police and the distraught to allow things to cool down. We tend to want to resolve things too quickly in some cases.
A lot the story doesn’t say, such as whether there was anyone else in the residence, etc which could have impacted the officers decision making.
I finished the article about the non-shoot and my first thought was that there is always more to the story. While city says that he wasn’t fired for the non-shoot, the evidence sure seems to point that he was. So much for the theory of combat vets coming back and shooting the place up.
I’m less sympathetic to the “Brandishing” stuff, especially in S Florida as it’s the new “he was coming at me” defense. Big issue with FL concealed carry (or was)… they could/would book you for “brandishing” if any part of your holster or firearm was exposed.
With the most notable case being a guy on the interstate with the family in a mini-van changing a flat tire. Was booked for brandishing. One particular county was very bad in this regard.
But even if suicidal. A jerk. With bad dogs that were clearly not service dogs. Known to have a weapon. Is there not a “less lethal” option to take out the guy other than dropping him in a fusilade?
Taking aim? Drop him. Pot shots at passing cars, call swat. Holding a pistol pointed down and threatening to off himself? No Hostage. Just wondering.
Bean bag to the chest? Call the swat sniper and have him shoot an extremity?
Then again, we have the adjacent county to where I live that had a swat “sniper” pop a suicidal kid in the head without any kind of confirmation from the officers who had been on site and knew the situation.
I don’t know the full details here, nor do most (all?) of us. But this feels like we could/should do better. Starting with the vet housing situation, root cause.
I am not in favor of tying the hands of LEO. I believe swat teams have a valid role and are needed.
But I’m also seeing cases where the cops I knew as a kid would have said "Frank, Get Joe over here ASAP and have him talk to him. If we push this, we’ll have to pop the old codger. And I don’t want to be the one that shoots an 84yo Korean war vet because he has no place to go. Just keep everyone away, he won’t shoot. ".
Maybe I’m dreaming, and we are past that. LEO pay the price for questionable shoots, or even legit ones in sad situations.
Because this is a 84 year old veteran who most likely needed to be under supervision. It’s really damn easy to feel like all you have left in the world is your dog and the place you sleep. Threaten either one and old timers with diminished reasoning can quickly go to Defcon 1.
This is seriously dangerous because he could have shot a cop who didn’t assess the threat soon enough and this is dangerous because he could have forced a cop to shoot him (which seems to be what happened in this case).
Bottom line it was preventable and should have never even gotten to that point. Homeless combat veterans are a disgrace to a nation that failed them. Even if it’s just a spot at the local Veterans Shelter (something that needs to exist), he should have never been left to fend for himself.
Again, when it comes to social services, veterans (especially the elderly) should be at the top of the food chain.
Ill try to find more. I remember this story from 2 years ago. From what I remember of the shooting is he was yelling at the guy and placed himself in danger when the guy pulled a gun. The other officer fired in defense of Mader.
He also got in trouble for illegally searching a car and then when the owner confronted him, he arrested the guy for disorderly conduct for swearing.
When you are 84 and “believe” you are in the process of losing your home and your buddy, all kinds of bad options run through your head. He might have checked himself and the dog out if he didn’t see a clear alternative to his situation, which was probably asking a lot of his faculties at the time.
We need a positive safety net in place for anyone who ever honorably served, especially combat vets in the last years of their lives. At that point, your dog might be the most important relationship you have and some guys are willing to sacrifice even their own lives to protect the only important remaining relationship they have.
Perspectives get really different when you know you are coming to the end of things.