800m ar10's, school me

General Firearms Precision Rifle - Semi-Auto
1

I have come to the conclusion I would like an AR10 for some 800-1k meter shooting, I will be buying this rifle with post deployment dough so price isn’t a huge factor, but I’d like to keep it below 4k for rifle and glass. I am seeing ar10’s from 1200(dpms) -5k(KAC) I have tried to do as much research as possible but I keep coming across conflicting data. people claim 3/4MOA out of a DPMS at 300 yds and some are claiming 2.5MOA at 100 yds.

I am leaning towards the LMT MWS, but I just don’t know enough about this to make my final decision. Would it be worth it to buy a of the shelf DPMS, install a better trigger and barrel and get better performance for half the cost?

2

Buy once, cry once. Personally I’d go with the LMT MWS, but then again I’m biased. Other options would be a SR25, or perhaps an OBR.

I’ve shot my MWS extensively at ranges from 800-1100yds, and I’ve been very happy with the results.

Few vids if you care to see the MWS in action at 800-1000yds

//youtu.be/dQtP8B03XuM

3

//youtu.be/9KXS8i8tFQI

LMT MWS 16" CL @ 994yds…steel/jugs of water

4

Here’s the way I always broke it down for folks when I was doing sales and similar questions were asked. The biggest factor in all of this is your personal preferences regardless of what I or anyone else says, it falls on what you like. That being said it also depends on what your plans may be for the weapon, be it competition precision distance shooting, 3-gun, hunting, punching paper at distance, or pulling a awesome stick out of your safe o impress your friends depends on you. Now this isn’t going to include every manufacturer as I do not have experience with them but here is what I can offer. In no particular order here is a list of companies and what I know about them as well as their products.

DPMS/Remington (does not include Remington Mil)
Pros:
Relatively inexpensive
readily available
plentiful model/caliber variety
Based on SR25 bolt pattern allows for cross capibility

Cons:
Questionable QC resulting in cherry and lemon shootiing weapons
Haven’t heard the best about CS (this may have change it has been awhile since last interaction)

LMT
Pros:
Fair price point
Quality production
Model/caliber variety options
readily available-ish
good CS
capable of accurate firearms
follow SR25 bolt pattern

Cons:
limited opportunity for mounting custom barrel (proprietary barrels)
limited rail options with monolithic uppers
typically heavier than other manufacturers

KAC:
Pros:
Quality production
Reliable when paired with appropriate ammunition
capable of good accuracy
good CS
is the SR25 bolt pattern

Cons:
Most expensive
long wait time on delivery
requires proprietary tools to modify
somewhat limited model options

Armalite
pros:
relatively inexpensive
fair quality production
model variety-ish
readily available
fair CS
Based on AR10 bolt pattern (newest models now loosely based around SR25 bolt pattern)

Cons:
Accuracy is questionable between rifles
lack of innovation considering length of time company has existed
spotty CS (internet is filled with positive and negative stories of Armalite’s CS)

Larue
Pros:
Fair price point
quality production (however I have heard that recent production increases have stressed QC)
model variety
capable of accurate weapons
SR25 Bolt pattern
positive CS history

Cons:
recent issues with QC
some propritary issues with forends
High tolerances creating issues late in rifle life

These are the top 5 most people would recommend when talking about a 308 semi auto AR. Now I’m certain there is going to be a rash of folks saying why didn’t I include Colt, Bushmaster, RRA, MEGA, FN, HK, etc… The reasons why is ranging from no experience shooting their rifles to some companies production being pretty much crap weapons. However I do urge any folks that have appropriate experience with the above companies to talk about it. Also I would say that if you are looking at shooting 800-1200m i would look into 260 as an option.

But like I said at the beginning this is one person’s opinion, it ultimitely falls on your preferences.

5

I’d build one from Mega receiver sets sold at Rainier Arms.

6

If you ask anyone who shoots distance with the challenging 308/762 they will tell you it’s all about skill which requires tons of practice. The 308 goes transonic at the 800-900m mark making wind doping and knowledge of your optics paramount and frustrating.

I’m just suggesting you be sure that this is something you really want before you go to the 308/762 platform. Else I would also recommend you take a look at the 260/ 6.5mm or 6mm Norma venue as they will be much more capable at those distances. Bolt action though not sexy is pretty much the standard in the precision 600m+ distances. Just don’t want to see you spend all that oconus money on something that surprises you with the inherent performance and additional time/dedication that will be involved with precision distance shooting on the ar10 platform.

7

Thanks for all the info. after watching those videos I’m now really thinking about purchasing the MWS, but I was wondering if that 16" barrel is enough to stabilize the round, wouldn’t an 18" be optimal for a 7.62 round?

8

A 16-inch LMT MWS is a fine choice for an 800-Meter rifle and will more than hold its own against any challenger. It will be slightly heavier than most of its peers due to the barrel change-out system, but the heavier barrel shank gives it an advantage for accuracy as it’s clamped into the upper over a larger area.

You can always invest in another barrel and go 18 or 20 inches.

With a 16-inch barrel you’ll probably want to shoot 175 to 185-grain bullets. I’ve used Lapua and Sierra 155s and they do NOT retain velocity well out of a 16-inch tube (leaving around 2550 fps muzzle velocity) at the longer distances (900 Meters and beyond).

Once you’ve got the rifle you may or may not want to eventually upgrade the trigger to a Geissele.

I am partial to Armalites as they offer a good turn-key system, but I’d swap out their trigger as well.

The pros and cons of the other systems have been beaten about for cost and the need for upgrades. It all depends on how much you want to spend and your patience.

Regardless whose base rifle you build on you’ll want a decent scope and mount, so that will cut into what you want to spend on the base rifle.

A 7.62 auto loader takes a little more practice and finesse to get shooting as well as a well-built bolt action rifle.

9

Another plus for the LMT in my book.

I’d not buy one just to change barrels, but if you do decide to get more efficient calibers down the road it’s an easy option to play with.

10

Excellent point!

11

Considering that a good mount and glass is going to run you into the $1500-2500 area, with some more for general support gear, I would counter that 4k is a bit low.

You can get ahold of LMTs for around ~3-3.5k.
The SR25 ER and EC can be found used for about the same high end.

12

Love your vids, well done amd nice shooting.

When your spotter says “nice” is he seeing the hit before the sound of the gong makes it back?

13

I was originally looking for a KAC SR25 EC, because I shoot the M110, but the price I was seeing on gun broker (4700) is ****ing crazy high. If I could find one for the price you just mentioned I’d buy it and save for glass. I’ve never bought a scope, all of mine are red dots or issued RCO/SDO’s

14

It’s not the length of the barrel that stabilizes the bullet, it’s the RPM the bullet is spinning. As the bullet travels, it loses RPMs and when the RPMs drop below a certain point, the bullet will start to wobble. For long range shooting, you’ll want to start the bullet with enough RPM to remain stable all the way to it’s target. The two factors that determine RPM is rifling twist and muzzle velocity

15

Thanks for the kind words brother.

We’re (spotter/myself) seeing the steel plate move roughly 2 seconds before we here the steel plate hit. It’s roughly 4 seconds til the shooter hears sound.

Note the TOF calculations on the dope chart below…

16

That’s impressive, I love science/physics. I regret selling one gun and that was my lmt mws…

17

if i were getting a precision gas gun to shoot LR i would have to consider a couple of additional options

  1. relatively cheap receiver (DPMS or similar) build with a high quality (bartlein/krieger) barrel in 6 or 6.5 Creedmoor (or 308 if you have to)
  2. GAP10 in a 6 or 6.5 caliber
  3. JP rifles in a 6 or 6.5 caliber

one could argue that like race cars, the latter two choices (and the aforementioned OBR) try to squeeze a little more performance out at the cost of higher maintenance, and that might be fair, but the truth is LR shooting is an expensive, high maintenance endeavor and without the personality, discipline, and dedication to it, you’ll probably find it frustrating unless you are shooting at E types. Starting out with a slow bullet with a sucky BC and gas gun issues is likely to make the learning curve long and expensive.

whatever i chose, i would want a 20" barrel and a good trigger.