I’m rearranging my rifles a bit and struggling with an optic choice. The rifle in question is a Daniel Defense 16" CHF barrel, mid-gassed. It’s purpose will be precision(ish) shooting out to 700yds. If it will shoot MOA out to that distance, I’ll be happy. I am taking the Aimpoint off this rifle and putting it on my new MK18, so speed and CQB are covered there, however, I want variable magnification so that if I needed to use this rifle for a short(ish) range shot (50yds+) I could.
I want turrents and a BDC turret would be preferable. I also want a ranging reticle.
EDIT: Budget is now $1200 and am looking for a 1-6.
Thanks!
Have you looked at Nikon and their M-223 AR scope lineup? I have a 2-8x with BDC but I have not found a need for it on any of my rifles. My use for my AR’s has taken me in a different direction. It is unused thus far. I also have the Nikon mount for it. You may want to look into Nikon for that kind of money.
Not a big fan of the 3-9 class scopes for carbines or even DMR rifles. I really think that one needs to go 2x or less on the bottom end to make “both eyes open” sighting possible and to enlarge the exit pupil so as to speed up reticle aquisition for closer fleeting targets.
Secondly I would point out that while the BDC reticles seem helpful, they are just not adequate for stuff past 400-500. they are only rough estimates of what you will actually encounter in the field and you end up suffering with “not quite right”. Take my advice on this one, grab an hash mark Mil or MOA reticle with an externally adjustable turret system. skip the dots and the BDC. you can always add a BDC onto your turret and use that, but a halfway decent range card based on your load and conditions will be an order of magnitude better than a crappy BDC based on a theoretical load and conditions. You can still use your reticle for hold overs this way.
The Vortex Viper PST 2.5-10x has the features you want even if the mag is a bit high. the price is certainly right. (it streets for around $579)
The leupold MRT 1.5-5 MRT is a good scope but the reticle is specialized. the MRT 2.5-8x TMR is a decent scope. the Mark 8 would be cool but it’s overpriced.
from there it’s on to Nightforce and US Optics for me. Both offer nice scopes at a reasonable price.
Thank you for the input so far. To clarify, I’m wanting a BDC turret, not a BDC reticle. I want a ranging reticle and I want the reticle to match the turrets. In my price range, that leaves the new Leupold VX-R and Vortex Viper PST…decisions, decisions…Jack-O, I appreciate your input on the low end magnification. I’m really looking at this more as a precision rig, that could be used to fight than a fighting rifle that could be used at range. Does that make sense?
yeah, I’m with you on that 100%. you still dont need to lose too much fighting rifle in the quest for “prescision” features. I think you are gonna be more caliber limited in the amount of force you can project at that range . it’s gonna be a really narrow range of ability even with good projectiles at the longer ranges. your strength will really lie in the ability to hit out to 500, with great accuracy. After 500 it’s a different game.
as for what you “want” I cant tell you that, I can only relay what little I know based upon my expense and time spent training and testing various gear setups. Frankly I’m always in a state of flux on some things but I also always have my front line setups dialed in and fully tested before they go front line.
on my “precision carbine” I have a 1-4x USO. On my DMR setup I have a 2.5-8s Leupy with plans on switching to a vortex 2.5-10x. on my precision long range setup (magnum caliber) I have a 3.5-15x56 Nightforce. Even shooting out to 1400 yards I never felt the 15x was a handicap. once you get over 20x riflescopes are rarely worth it without a very very large objective, like more than 60mm.
Anyway, some food for thought. as you learn more you will want different things based on what you learned, but you’ll rarely if ever regret buying good optics with common reticles.
I have a Vortex 6.5-20x50 on my SPR type rifle, and I am very happy with it. Really nice glass. The only thing I would like to see is an open center like on the Leupold scope. I got to check out the new Viper PST 1-4x24 recently, and I really like that one. I will have one sooner or later. Vortex has really nice scopes at a good price.
After lots of reading and some good input, I’m pretty much decided on the Vortex Viper PST 1-4 MOA/MOA. What I had to come to grips with is that “hits” are all that matter. It doesn’t really make much sense to be super concenred with shooting tight groups at 600 yds with an AR. The quicker you can hit the target, the better off you are, and this optic should do that, plus it has the niceities of turrets for dialing dope if I wanted to. Now I just have to get the paperwork going on my MK18 and save a few more pennies (come on tax refund) to get this optic on my 16".
I think you made a good decision to go with a 1-4x. Check out the SS1-4, its a great 1-4, l actually sold my s&b short dot after running it for a while, not joking. Its around 800$ but the reticle is about perfect. The only thing l didnt like about the 1-4pst is its easy to lose the reticle in thick brush. Its still pretty good for 500$ though. I was just amazed how good the SS1-4x is and thats coming from someone who has owned and compared about every scope worth owning or comparing.
Gotta put in a plug for the Leupold VX-R. I ran one yesterday in a Defoor carbine course and will finish up the class with it today. I have the Patrol, which has external turrets but I think if I was spending my own money I’d buy the hunting with the protected turrets. I’d like to play with the HOG reticule model just to see how I like what appears to be a smaller circle and a heavier “plex”.
Good choice. I never considered a BDC precise enough for a precision rifle. There are too many variables. I do own two scopes with BDC reticles, but only consider them good enough to get me somewhere on a large target quickly.
I think you may be asking to much for your chosen rifle and scope combo. I have and regularly use a Vortex 1-4. It is a great scope and it works well, but you are asking a lot to be able to get consistent hits out to 600-700 yards especially considering you are use a CHF chrome lined barrel.
I would look at the SWFA 3-9 scope FFP MIL/MIL. A 16inch chrome lined barrel with good ammo should be able to make hits out to 700 yrds pretty consistently on chest size targets.
I talked to my wife and my optics budget is now up to $1200. I was dead set on a used Nightforce 2.5-10 for the last 3 weeks and have been scouring the EE’s here and at snipershide. I’ve also been doing a lot of reading. I thought that I’d rather have the 10X up top, but I really start questioning the 2.5 on the bottom. I look at what guys like Defoor, M4Guru, and KevinB are doing with their 4X optics (solid hits out to 600) and have just about talked myself back down to a 1-4 optic. I’ve looked at the NF 1-4, the USO 1-4, and the Vortex stuff again. Even with the $1200 budget, the Vortex has more of what I want (except maybe the DFP USO, but that’s beyond the budget). I’m also starting to consider a used Short Dot if I can find one cheap enough, but I think $1500 with mount is about the max I could squeeze out.
So with the increased budget, am I missing any other good options? The Super Sniper is not a contender for me. I checked out a VX-R Patrol and the reticle was too fat and round.
LOL if you want me to throw another wrench into your plans take a look at IOR/Valdada’s new generation 2-12x36 or the 1.5-8x optic. they are pretty awesome and have everything you are looking for basically.
once you look at it give Liberty Optics a call and get the street price from him. I have a feeling it will fall into your budget
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