Thank you for the education, was leaning that it would not be possible and even if it was you have let me know the weight is in the barrel, I got my LMT very cheap early on made a good amount selling it, so was a lateral move, guess I will have to live with my poor pencil barrel OBR. My scope and mount will be here next week, I will have some knowledgeable people there to help get me started in long range. I am going too try and follow the guidelines being laid out in the precision semi auto forum, and give reports that are meaningful. I really think I need Iron sights on my OBR might be wrong headed thinking again, just not used too a gun without them, was thinking of the the Troy set at Larue? I might should have got the Predator, but was wanting too learn Long range precision semi-auto, thought the OBR would give me better accuracy in the long run when I get to where I am not the weak link.
If I recall correctly, the MWS uses a shorter gas system then the Pred, which ends up causing the MWS to kick noticeably harder. Despite how heavy the MWS was, it really did have some kick to it.
As an aside, the PredatAR H we shot 2 weeks ago was Steve Fishers, and the gun is generally so light, and so soft shooting, that the Surefire 7.62 K brake was actually causing the gun to dip DOWN.
It’s a damn awesome gun, I really ought to order one of them eventually.
The 16"CL is 7.62 carbine gas… for a fair comparison you’d want to buy it with a rifle gas barrel and re-profile it. Rifle gas example with exposed block below. Probably still a bit heavier but gain barrel change option and monolithic upper that provides superior rigidity. Drop in a Noveske rifle gas barrel with swtichblock when they come out (an easy option for the LMT). Street price of the LMT is hard to beat… call it $2250 new or $2000 lightly used. Consider the value of the Sopmod and BUIS you can keep or sell as well.
ETA: The Geissele on the Larue is an addition that would have to be factored in to the LMT. You get a KAC clone ambi controls lower with the LMT. For $2700 you could probably pick up a used MWS and get a Noveske or the exact LW-50 barrel Larue uses converted and dropped in. Chop the 16" carbine gas to 13.5" and take advantage of the MWS versatility for two roles with the 2 barrels.
I don’t give a rat’s ass what side of this debate you’re on, that right there is some hilariously funny shit!!!
That is funny. Would be nice if all these guys would start selling uppers. LMT, Larue, KAC should be swappable. I have my MWS upper on a preban KAC lower. They should also fit on DPMS lowers with a big gap (reverse is not true given the extra material).
Some solo uppers for these guns would be nice. That may let me assemble my 7.62 AR nirvana; my MWS lower paired to a PredatAR upper w/ an OBR 16" barrel.
This is great information. Thanks all.
Are there any links someone can point me towards for reviews of the PredatAR after some serious training classes or (the overused phrase) “torture tests”?
Here we go with Tridet, always starting an argument with established members of the forum. Dude, we all know your appreciation for all things LMT and specifically the MRP platform. Both the Predatar and the MWS are fine systems, nobody here is downgrading either one. People are just relaying their opinions and experiences with the systems in an effort to help the OP make an informed choice.
Perhaps you need to go back to kindergarten and learn that just because somebody does not agree with your point of view, does not mean they, or you are wrong.
With that out of the way, I am having a hard time picking between the MWS and the Predetar. Both seem like great performers, but right now I am leaning toward Larue for the wieght issue.
That’s exactly what happens with my SCAR H and the BattleComp BABC.
It doesn’t seem that the Surefire brakes are standard on Larue rifles, but I’ve never seen one with a brake on it. Not having shot the same rifle with and w/o a brake I can’t say I know how much effect it has, but I can say that from proning out next to a braked OBR- ouch- it is working.
I’d like to see a rifle/mid length gassed MWS with the same brake as the OBR, since I’ve seen vary few MWS’ with brakes on them.
I did put Slashes Stainless Steel buffer in my PRS stocked MWS, and it does tame it some, but I’m finding position loading the bipod help as much as anything.
Running a class with a 762 AR, man you guys are made of money. I’d have to get a sponsorship to get that going.
I originally thought the BattleComp was pushing the barrel down from the pressure being released from the top. But if the Predatar was recoiling down with a Surefire side-ported brake, I’m guessing it’s just eliminating recoil and the bolt slamming home is causing it to dip.
I’ve been thinking about picking up a 7.62 Predatar, but I’m not sure I have a place for it. I recently sold my REPR and have been spending more time on the SCAR. It’s getting cut to 13" some time this year and I think I’ll be picking up a Surefire 7.62 mini for it as well. I’ll most likely stick with a flash hider mount.
There’s a good review on Lightfighter of a 7.62 Predatar, but he makes it a point to mention it’s no OBR. Seeing as it’s nearly the same weight as my SCAR and the SCAR appears to hold a bit more accuracy, even more so after the cut apparently, it’s hard to find an excuse to buy one.
The LMT MWS, I have a little experience with but just a handful og mags. That thing is heavy but accurate. I took the SCAR H on a three day hunting trip a month or two ago with another member here, and it was easy to carry around for our 15 hour hunting days with an ACOG and a scout light. I doubt I could say the same for the LMT.
If I was choosing between the two, I’d personally go for the Predatar. Whether I’m using a bay at the local club or I’m at the ranch walking and driving the land, I’m never really staying in one place. My idea of benchresting is butting my vert grip up against a fence post or tree or dropping for a quick shot from prone using the magazine as a monopod.
If I was shooting from a bench at the local club or laying out somewhere for quite some time, I’m sure I’d choose the LMT as it’s most likely the more accurate of the two, whether we’re talking cold bore first round hits or once it gets hot.
I have video somewhere of my buddy shooting the SCAR H with the BattleComp. He has a slightly loose grip and you can see the muzzle dip after each shot.
GAP-10? Same platform and price range, great company, variety of barrel lengths/weights, monolithic upper…only reviews I’ve seen are positive.
Addressing recoil on the MWS I can say that mine was not bad at all before I put a SJC Titan on it and now that I have put it on it recoils less than a lot of 5.56 guns I’ve been around. To give you an idea of how little it recoils in this configuration here is a video of me at the local rifle match earlier this year.
http://www.youtube.com/user/romeotangofoxtrot#p/u/25/LR2lwCkkX50
I’m at the 3:10 mark.
I ran this rifle at three matches and although it is a bit heavier than the SCAR 17s and the Predatar once I got used to the platform I had zero issues. I finally came to the realization the 5.56 is really the way to go for gaming and home defense.
For running and gunning I’d go for a Predatar for extended strings of fire or SDM type shooting I’d go for the MWS or OBR.
Ya know…that’s actually something I talked about late last year, after the whole ordeal with my SR-25 EMC. Frankly I think we sometimes get caliber struck, so to speak, and think that taking a .30 cal battle rifle out to a class is somehow going to make us the biggest cock on the block, and our targets will explode from the pure awesomeness of the 7.62. The reality is, unless you’re doing something like LAV’s battle rifle class, and are at MOST doing 100-150yd shots, then you will get smoked every time by a 5.56 gun. You’ll be carrying double the weight, with only 2/3rds the ammo capability, and running it at half the speed. Frankly while the idea was awesome, the reality was not anywhere near as cool.
While I love shooting 7.62, I’m kind of over my whole phase of “run and gun” with 7.62. It has its applications, but a carbine class is not one of them. Other than to congratulate yourself for how awesome you are, it really serves no purpose. I see the attraction, but I’ve also seen the reality of it, and it falls flat. Remember this is within the confines of a class setting, just keep that in mind.
The OP’s question was between the LMT and LaRue, so I think he’s being fairly specific on which ones he’s asking about.
It’s not the bolt, it’s that the SF K brake is so damn effective, that on the softer shooting PredatAR it’s taking that expended gas and just overdriving the muzzle. Steve and I discussed this 2 weeks ago, and he may try actually drilling a port on the bottom of the brake to help compensate for that dip.
I think that’s the crux of the issue, if you want a run and gun 7.62 (see first part of this post) then the PredatAR wins, hands down. Pounds equal pain, and the OBR is a precision rig, whereas the PredatAR is less so. The MWS is a fine gun, but it’s a pig. It really is. It’s heavy as hell. I’ve run a few of them, and while I wouldn’t kick that gun out of bed, it’s NOT a gun I’d use for moving quickly. Whereas from experience the PredatAR feels like a SLIGHTLY heavier AR15. The LMT can be made better, I know Barry Dueck runs the shit out of one, but he’s machined most of the rails off the MWS to help get that thing lighter.
Within the original context of “battle rifle” I’d still say the LaRue is the one to go with, especially since it doesn’t require NEARLY the amount of tinkering the MWS supposedly needs to be ready to run.
The thing that boggles my mind is that LMT hasn’t come out with a light weight barrel for the MWS yet. I have several ideas as to how they could loose a lot of weight just off the barrel. reprofile the barrel and deep flute the area just ahead of the barrel extention for a start and I’m sure you could drop a pound.
If LMT would come out with a barrel that lost a pound or more then you would have a .308 for all sessions…
Took you long enough.;)
Gonna put a nice scope on that OBR?
Already got a nice FFP Leupold Mk4 Mil-Dot setup on there till I pop for a S&B PMII or the 1-8x.
I can’t remember what smith I talked to, but it might be the guys up in the Northwest (BCMG or something- Noveske barrels for the MRP and MWS) and I asked them about fluting, or my idea was something like a dovetail in the metal. The jist back was that because of the forces involved with a 762 round, they felt like LMT had done a good job and that they couldn’t take any real weight out without compromising properties. Still seems like you could drill some holes in it. I talked to MSTN about dimpling the barrel portion, and it didn’t seem like it took off much weight.
I’m joining a new range soon with some bays. For giggles I’ll scope up my Novekse 556 gun and the MWS and time some drills.
I definately think the 762 ARs may be kind of faddish if they don’t find someway to be incorporated into gun games with some kind of equalizer. They are getting pretty close to bolt guns in accuracy, but will never get all the way there- I think- so it depends on that games accuracy requirements to see if the ARs are competitive.
There needs to be some kind of game set up that requires energy downrange, fast and pretty accurately. A square range Afghanistan.
Horses for courses or they end up in the safe and eventually in the EE.
To the OPs question- If I were to have only one rifle- it would be the PRedator. But if I have AR15s, I’d go with the MWS (or OBR) since it expands your capability ‘envelope’ more.
Run and gun a 7.62 gun? Try an AK47 
Nice, I cant wait to check out the 1-8 S&B.
Currently running a 2.5-10x32 nightforce on my SR until a 1-8 that has what I want in one comes out.
Have access to a 1200m range right now lots of fun.
same scope I got to hold me over, until I get a S&B PMII 3x20x50 no 1x8( which nothing but logic tells me they are not going to sell the 1x8 for 2500.00 if this much time and research went into it, hope I am wrong) for me just a paper shooter, and no 3 gun, so no role for it, our range just went to 1500m. I will say that my LMT was an awesome gun,but wanted to try the OBR I do not need all the real estate on the LMT can see where operators might. I just need a place for my scope, bi pod, and irons if I get them. I may for go the S&B for awhile until stuff is out for awhile and not vapor ware to the regular Joe, put money into some classes and ammo, if money was no object I would have both S&B scopes :(.