hey guys wanted to get your input on what would make a great rifle for a few different roles?
I was initially interested in a rifle with easy barrel swaps like the acr or scar H… would like to have a 18" and be able to go to 16" or 14.5 if needed but my main goal is a bigger better caliber then 556. and was wondering what my options were?
Ive got plently of time to do this as im starting to save now. so waiting for rifles to come out is not a problem.
sorry for the newb question this is my first venture outside of 556 223 so bare with me
There is a significant difference in the construction of intermediate caliber AR’s and their larger full power AR10’s. Its about an 1 1/2" in the bolts and mag wells.
If you have an existing AR15 lower, all the available calibers for intermediates are possible. Moving to the .308 sizes means moving into a completely different firearm, with double the recoil, and about three pounds more carry weight. It makes it a whole different gun.
AR10 platform guns don’t yet have universal cheap military standard parts available from dozens of suppliers. Parts become a single source of the maker only, like any other commercial gun.
Application has a lot to do with it, too. If it’s a short barreled close range gun, getting a long range caliber with a chopped barrel may not be the optimum choice. Market availability has a lot to do with it, too. Some combinations are limited to a few makers filling a niche market. The general pubic consensus - right or wrong - is that the product isn’t worth the money overall. Apparently very few seem to find enough reason to own it. The ballistic and user advantages are a hard sell.
The best way to figure it is to fit the rifle and caliber to the role - with an informed and honest view of what that is.
Cost of ammo can be a issue for some, if they can’t stand the idea of ammo over 50c a round, sticking to 5.56 or other cheap surplus would be a given, and a caliber change becomes moot.
Gotta know, whatcha gonna do? Then suggestions can follow. As for the interchangeable barrel on one receiver, not so much. They make two different sized guns because of the magwells.
I think i worded my question wrong. I am looking into a bigger caliber and was curious which one is better 6.8 or 308? i want something with knockdown out to about 500m with better ballistics then 556. the barrel changing question was meant for whatever caliber i choose… Like if i needed cqb duties or close range i could use a 16" and then swap to a 18 or 20 for longer distance. That is why i was originaly intersted in the scar and acr but maybe just a basic 16" or 18" would suite me better?
Each serve a different need. The 6.8 is ideal as a 5.56 replacement. In other words, it is designed for typical assault rifle ranges which are under 500m. Although, some designated marksmen have dropped insurgents at 600m with a 5.56 M4 effectively. The 6.8 has better overall penetration through barriers and causes more tissue destruction. It also does well with shorter barrels.
The .308 is a rifle cartridge. It does best with longer barrels and is better at retaining good velocity and terminal effects at longer ranges. It will shoot flatter, and will give you better precision at those longer ranges. The rifle action is larger and heavier, and the ammunition is about double the weight of the 5.56. If I was planning on shooting targets at 500+m, then I would go for the .308.
Or, you can select quality 5.56 loads with a good platform and probably fulfill all your needs. The 77gr SMK has earned a good reputation by designated marksmen in the field at long ranges(over 500m). The load retains good velocity, and is able to disrupt and frag at those longer ranges. The key factor in ANY long range platform is your ability to make precision shots. It doesn’t matter what the caliber is, if you don’t make your shots count it has little effect. This means quality optics(at least $1k), your ability to estimate range, your ability to estimate trajectory, and your ability to make accurate shots. So, at the very least you need a quality rifle, quality optics, a quality range finder, and LOTs of practice.
+1, well said. What are you trying to knock down at 500 yards? I’d say that based on what you’ve shared so far the .308 seems like the hot setup, particularly if it’s game you’re trying to take at that range.
More information is needed to give you a useful answer–please provide details on the following previous query:
[i]What are you going to do with the rifle–what specific mission/roles is it going to need to fill?
Do you already have AR15 lowers?
Is your personal or issued LBE set-up for 5.56 mm magazines or 7.62 mm ones?[/i]
In addition, is it for play/range use, target/competition, hunting, or real world/duty carry? Are you going to bet your life on this rifle? CONUS/OCONUS use?
Since your subject line contained “6.8 … 308 or what???”, I’ll address the “or what”.
Consider the 6.5 Grendel. It’s the flattest shooting Tier One cartridge available for the AR-15 receiver. It’s interesting that optics set up for the 7.62NATO round’s trajectory, with bullet drop compensating reticles, can be used for the 6.5 Grendel with excellent accuracy to beyond where most folks shoot.
.308 is ideal for any large game in North America. The 6.8 or Grendel will not be as effective against game over 300lbs. Keep in mind, going for a jack of all trades system means that you will be a master of none.
I say stick with the 5.56…If you are going for deer sized targets simply lure them into the 100 yard envelope and put one or two rounds into the spine…You break there back and they won’t be going very far…Then all you have to do is move in and put one to the head or cut there throat…To save ammo i prefer the knife…Use a decent bullet, mine are hornady 75gr match…
This is definately illegal, but a salt lick will bring the subject right to you…My relatives used them many years ago… As for the TAP ammo, if you check out hornady ballistic charts you will see that there match and tap ammo are the same…I got that info from hornady, also hornady has lowered the speed of there tap ammo to just about the same speed as there 75gr match for better penetration of windshields walls doors etc…
That’s strange, there are literally hundreds of reports of both being used very successfully for hunting in this forum and several others.
More on point, I don’t think I’d choose either caliber for animals larger than Black bear, other calibers being more effective, but for Black bear and all North American deer, they’re very good.
I have been in the same position you were, and I will offer my own thoughts on the 6.8, 6.5, .308, or X rifle debate. I suggest you start by spending time browsing a couple areas of this site and reading a lot. I spent a lot of time on the Terminal Ballistic Information forum and in this forum.
I also balanced my own purpose(s) with my budget. Like you I wanted a hunting/tactical rifle with more terminal performance than 5.56, and didn’t want a 20" FAL. I finally decided on a .308 Win AR w/16" barrel for the following reasons:
-.308 can do everything 5.56, 6.8, and 6.5 do, not necessarily true in reverse though
-Terminal ballistics of a quality .308 round are excellent Not that 6.8 and 6.5 are slouches either.
-.308 is much easier to find ammunition for
-.308 ammunition is generally cheaper, and if you handload it is an established round with many loads/components to choose from
-.308 is a US military/NATO round and will be around for a long, long time
-A SR-25 pattern .308 rifle allows inexpensive, reliable mags (pmags)
You do pay a penalty in the weight of the system as opposed to 6.8/6.5 rifles. I am willing to hump the extra pound or two to have an all around rifle that does everything else I want. Also, .308 may not be ideal for true CQB ops, but I don’t kick doors in anymore.
You mentioned you have 5.56 ARs, so 6.8/6.5 could fill your needs with a smaller budget. Also, you can always sell and change to another caliber if you don’t like the one you have. If you choose 6.8 and don’t like it, sell the upper and get a 6.5, or bump up into a .308 AR.
In the end, it is your rifle and your money. Be brutally honest about your needs and find a rifle that fills them. Then shoot the crap out of it until you can operate it in your sleep.
I will end with this: I was on the fence, nervously leaning towards 308 when DocGKR posted this in another thread:
This was the virtually the same issue I was having a few months ago. The best way to approach this question is with a question, using what I learned from my headache. “Do you truely want to waste a lot of time experimenting with grain weights of bullets and probably have to start reloading, or do you want a little more knock down power, but still have the ease of finding the ammo and plenty of other people to learn from who have invested time and money in discovering the “right” blend of bullet. For me I mistakenly chose 6.8spc and it was a headache from the get go. What ammo I could find was expensive and after purchasing it I was told it was bad quality. Then it went from gun stores having some ammo to nobody had ammo, or refuse to order it because it didn’t sell as fast as the other. Learn from my mistake, buy the .308 or buy a nice Long Range style 5.56 and shoot heavier bullets. I could never get any exceptional accuracy out of a LWRCi M6A2 16” barrel. 6.8 spc may be ok one day, but for your average joe, it is not practical. Besides, how many 6.8spc mags are you going to find on the battlefield to pillage from? All I buy now is military caliber guns, and you know I can always find ammo in stores…
I’m still trying to figure this out myself…I thought I had but with all of these 16" 7.62’s it makes my decision more cloudy.
-I have a 12.5" 6.8 coming and another ar-15 lower without an upper.
-Work guns are Remington 1187 and US M-14, both are too long, and heavy.
-don’t get me started on the 1187 (i’m an armorer)
-I would be able to carry this in my truck
-Want something short enough to handle in my work truck (Silverado 4x4)
-I occasionally due entries with the local SO, but its not routine.
-I shoot deer for work every year.
-I would use this as my go to rifle for an active shooter/killer event, entry, perimeter, etc…
-I get issued plenty of 7.62 (Hornady 155 grain TAP, and Federal 150 with Nosler ballistic tip)…I really like the “issued ammo” part!
I’ve been thinking the length and weight trade off is enough to off set the ammo issue.
Optic for 6.8 will be the T-1 with 3x magnifier in Larue mount.
with 7.62 i’ll reallly want to go after one of the new 1.1-8 which will be even more cash.
Also, if I get a 7.62 it will have to be the KAC…its just the way I am. But, i’m not overly excited of selling guns especially after going through the SBR process.
It is all very relative to how precise you are with your shot placement. Jack O’connor for example pushed the .270 Winchester far beyond its intended hunting capabilities into taking the largest game on earth. However, as the size of your game increases, so does the difficulty in putting it down quickly with your smaller caliber. A larger caliber is less prone to deflection off internal bone structure, tends to take out more anatomy, and tends to penetrate more deeply. Larger calibers make up for shot placement error or lack of enough precision. While you may be able to take a grizzly with a 6.8 or Grendel if you place your shot well, the .308 is a better insurance policy.
As for the TAP ammo, if you check out hornady ballistic charts you will see that there match and tap ammo are the same…I got that info from hornady, also hornady has lowered the speed of there tap ammo to just about the same speed as there 75gr match for better penetration of windshields walls doors etc…