50 yd zero

AR/M4 AR General Discussion
1

will someone please explain to me step by step in detail how to do a 50yd zero with iron sights. I have a MI rear flip up sight

                                                                       Thanks Guys
2

http://grburnett.us/guns/ImprovedBattlesightZero.pdf

Funny things happen when one utilizes the “search” function on this site. :wink:

3

There are links to those instructions posted in several threads. This thread is the only thread that I have come across that the link actually works.

Maybe the OP had the same result?

4

I have a similar question regarding zeroing at 50yds, though I am using my Micro T1 on LaRue mount. First off, what position is recommended when sighting in? Last time at the range, I used a table with a rest, essentially giving the rifle a “high kneeling” position, yet when I actually shot without using the table in my regular kneeling, my groups were all low by about 4-5 inches, though I was aiming at the same spot as I was when sighting in. :confused: I must be missing something elementary here?

5

I zero everything prone

6

If your basic marksmanship fundamentals are always consistent, then there should be no issue about bench shooting vs. kneeling. The are many things that could cause you to shoot differently. It is not rocket science, just being consistent in the basics.

Honestly, there are a lot of people buying rifles without little or no training. Uncle Sam taught me how to shoot, and I understand that not everyone can spend time in the military, but seek out training. Even if it is a NRA marksmanship course, it will do you a lot of good.

I try to never use the bench at a range. If you can’t get a good 50 yd zero using prone unsupported, then you need to get some training. That said, I try and zero prone supported off my rucksack.

7

I second what Iraq Ninja said.

Without attempting to sound like an ass, the AR system is easy to shoot, but you have to know how to shoot a rifle. I am referring to basic marksmenship. If someone doesn’t have a background in the military, or they didn’t have the pleasure of having “Vets” in the family to take them shooting as a kid, they might need some instruction on the basics of rifle marksmenship.

I’d strongly recommend contacting the NRA for a list of clubs in the local area who have rifle clinics. It would be an afternoon of training well spent.

8

this is very easily caused by the type of rest you were using on the “bench”, where you placed the rifle on the rest, and importantly, whether your barrel is free-floated.

a rifle will bounce off anything that is hard that it is rested against so make sure you use a soft rest such as a sand bag, etc.

also, use of a sling with the front attachment point anywhere on the barrel is going to cause problems.

and finally, I know you said you were using a Micro T1 which I believe is parallax-free, but for those who use another optic, or even irons sights, differences in stance can cause differences in sight picture, which will allow different POI.

9

Thanks guys its done

10

Along the same lines, maybe you can settle a disagreement over whether cheek weld is as important for a holosight as it is for iron sights. I’ve been told that cheek weld is not an issue for holosights.
Thanks for your input in advance.

Chickenlittle

11

Thanks for the replies, especially about sighting-in while prone. Next range session will find me doing that :slight_smile: You mention military training: I was in the Marines, I have more than enough time behind the sites of the AR system, but it has been a while since I have shot, and we always used iron sights, never anything like the Aimpoints/scopes etc. My groups were tight after I sighted in on the bench, but they were tight a good 4-5 inches low after I went to low-kneeling, so I was just inquiring about using the Aimpoint/bench etc. and whether or not that may have had anything to do with it.

12

as these sights are parallax free, no it is not important where you look into the sight from. however, cheek weld also affects how the gun responds in recoil so it’s possible that it would shoot to a different point of impact if you held it differently each time…

13

When zeroing your weapon with a RDS(Red Dot Sight), zero your iron sights first, then ensure your dot will co-witness with the front sight post or bottom third of your RDS field of view (Using the proper riser and your choice of dot placement). Then zero your dot. You should still use all basic marksmanship methods while zeroing your RDS (Proper cheek weld, trigger control, placement of the aiming point, BRASS, etc…). After both are zeroed independently, then that’s where the “parallax free” portion pays dividends.

14

well, what you are saying is right, but it has nothing to do with what I said.

the question was not about a RDS but a Holo, either an Eotec or Bushnell, I believe, and these sights are truly parallax free. the POI is not at all affected by any amount of off-axis veiwing as long as the target is visible within the sight.

this has nothing to do with sighting irons, zeroing them, or even cheekweld, which is what the OP asked about, when using them.

15

Bro, you were in the Marines but didn’t know what the most stable position for shooting is?? I’m pretty sure that’s been being taught for a long long time.

16

If you are hitting low after intial zero from a bench/prone when moving to a low kneeling it is most likely due to poor trigger control (jerking the trigger), anticipation of recoil (bucking/flinching), or a combination of the two. It is common when shooters have an unstable position and attempt to break the shot now, as the sight drifts accross the intended POA, instead of following the procedure for firing a precision shot.

It is also possible that the shooter can influence POI by applying pressure to the barrel through either direct hand pressure to the HG, sling tension, or improper use of a support.

17

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19

Don’t take what I posted too personal. It was a statement about correct zeroing, regardless of what RDS is used. A Holographic /HUD sight is considered a Red Dot Sight system since the primary aiming point IS a red dot. :rolleyes: Maybe using the term “Electronic Sighting System” is a better term to cover them all. They are just a variation of a theme. The same zeroing procedure still applies.

20

You may also consider zeroing @ 50 or 100yds using a 25 yard distance. There are a couple of excellent zeroing targets available for this procedure. Here is an excellent article written by Chief J. Chudwin (Olympia Fields, IL. PD) that thoroughly explains the process:
http://www.lawofficer.com/news-and-articles/articles/lom/0402/long_gun_zero.html

For zeroing an optic at either 50 or 100yds, I prefer this target from letargets.com:
http://www.letargets.com/estylez_item.aspx?item=PDT-OZT

When shooting iron sights, I find this target that Chudwin designed to work better:
http://www.lawofficer.com/Images/100yardzerotarget_tcm22-158738.pdf

Either zero (50 or 100yds) is excellent, and there is very little difference between the two out to 200yds. Out past 250yds the 50yd zero is a little more consistent (less drop).

Even if you plan on doing most of your shooting @ 50yds, the procedure described in the above article should help simplify the procedure.

Here is a bullet path chart showing the difference between the 50/100yd zeroes:
http://www.lawofficer.com/Images/chart_tcm22-146542.pdf