In another thread Doc had said the 50gr TSX was a better choice than the 70gr TSX, but I was not sure if that was due to over penetration with the 70gr or if the 50gr has a better wound profile.
As the TSX bullets expend they create petals. With the 50gr TSX, the petals don’t shear off when traveling through barriers…windshield glass etc.
If/when the pedals do shear off, the round preforms like a high velocity wadcutter leading to deep penetration and permenant cavity having the diameter of the bullet. IE, not optimal.
IMHO, the big problem with the TSX rounds are the cost. The cheapest i’ve seen the 50gr TSX for online was about $66 for 50 rounds, most others were quite higher, closer to $75.
I am wondering how the accuracy of the 50gr TSX would be out of 1/7 twist barrels.
compared to the 5.56 bonded 64gr winchester and 62gr bonded FBI (XM556FBIT3) round that might even be a little cheaper.
http://www.southwestammunition.com/product_p/55670tsx.htm
Is 50gr more expensive than 70gr?
This explanation seems questionable, though by no means am I discrediting you. Obviously most rounds have an inner core accompanied by a jacket, therefore can you please provide the link so I can better understand why this lighter weight round performs this way?
The 50gr TSX was made “tougher” so it doesnt sheer petals when going through auto glass. That also means the velocity at which it stops expanding reliably is higher ~2300 fps. The distance where velocity drops that low is far beyond where an average LE engagement would take place.
The 70gr TSX expands reliably down to ~1800 fps and with a higher BC so its better for longer range. But can sheer petals when going through glass.
Pick a load that suits your needs.
The TXS is solid copper. There is no jacket.
This information is contained in the thread about 5.56 duty ammo listed with all the other sticky threads from Doc.
The Southwest load would be about $1.38 per round. The 50gr about $1.32 on the low end, about $1.50 on the high.
Thank-you for the help.
I just picked up some of the Black Hills 50 grain TSX ammo myself from gandrtactical and was curious about the accuracy of it out of a 1 and 7 twist rate, too. I am glad to have this forum and Doc giving out advice or else I probably would have stuck with the old xm193.
:eek:
Hi, just a question for you knowledgeable people. Would you consider the 62gr TSX to be an acceptable compromise to carrying both 55gr and 70gr TSX? I’m trying to stick with just one bullet size for general use like HD, and maybe a little small (and medium?) game hunting out to a few hundred yards at most. Some hunters on a couple sites reported favorable results against whitetail and boar using the 62gr TSX. I saw a photo on the internet a while back comparing two expanded TSX bullets (55gr and 70gr) placed right next to each other after being fired into gelatin I believe. I don’t remember where I saw it anymore, but the 55gr had significantly more expansion than the 70gr. I’m assuming the 62gr would be intermediate in expansion between the two of these. My concern is that maybe I’d have to give up more stopping power than I should by choosing the 62gr over the 55gr, since the 62gr would presumably expand less? Or does the 7gr mass increase make up for less expansion and a smaller wound channel (with deeper penetration maybe)?
Also, the description for the 70gr TSX is that it requires a velocity of at least 1,800fps to expand on impact, which is apparently no longer the case past 200 yds or so. This is supposed to be a long range load I thought, but after 200 yds it acts like a wadcutter? Or a FMJ? Or what?
Lastly, on a tangential note, I was researching online about various rounds to pick as my main .223 ammo, and I was down to debating between the Federal Mk318 Mod 0 and the Winchester 64gr JSP (Q3313). Then I started reading more and more about the Barnes TSX bullets. The thing that somewhat concerned me about JSP’s and made me lean more towards the TSX was a mention by the Doc in his sticky about ammo load prefernces, regarding JSP’s occasionally fouling up the chamber after a few hundred rounds. Does anyone know which rounds are doing this, or is this an inevitable consequence of the round being a JSP in general? Thanks for your help.
It was actually on this site: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=26127&page=2
It was a 53gr, and it has alot more expansion than the 70gr.
I’m not saying it can’t happen, or that people haven’t had it happen, but I just put 680 rds of Brown Bear SP ammo through my AR in a Jason Falla class and didn’t have one stoppage the whole two day class…and I didn’t clean between days, just lube. I think we can all agree that Brown Bear is near the bottom of the barrel when it comes to ammo, but this SP ammo had one of the largest pieces of lead at the tip that I’ve ever seen on SP ammo. My bolt, chamber and receiver were extremely dirty by the end of day 2 thanks to the dirty russian ammo, but I didn’t experience lead buildup of any kind worth noting…just saying…
The bonded JSP’s like the TBBC, Nosler (used in the Q3313), Rem CLUB, and Gold Dot/Fusion tend to not cause as much lead fouling as other designs…
Almost ALL projectiles in most EVERY caliber tend to act like FMJ’s at distances out beyond 200-300.
Pick the best load for your intended use–for CONUS LE purposes, if you want a Barnes all copper projectile, the best option is the BH 50 gr TSX load. If you want to do something else, then another load might be better.
I handloaded my first batch of TSX’s recently and was disappointed with accuracy. Worst groups Ive ever had with handloads. 
They were comparable to my XM855 groupings. While not a terrible grouping in general, I expect a lot better from my handloads. I’m not giving up on them though, I might try a ladder test next week to try to find their sweet spot. Anyone care to share any load data that has worked for them? How do they group as a factory load?
Thanks for your response Doc. I guess I’m looking for a good round for both HD and for small to possibly medium game hunting, which is why I ultimately ruled out the fragmenting Mk318. Would you still recommend the 50gr TSX in this case? Or maybe the Nosler?
I was looking into the 70gr loading and found a LOT! of people using the SSA loading saying it was not accurate in their SBR. They then hand-loaded the round, and it wasn’t any better than SSA’s offerings. No matter how they varied the distance off the lands, etc. Art has stated that SBR’s are not accurate because in the 10-13" range of barrel lengths, or so, there is a peaking of pressure that destabilizes the projectile. Yet I saw these SBR’s producing @ 1 MOA groups on the same day using 77gr OTM, when the 70gr TSX was producing 3-5MOA groups.
When the SSA or handloads were fired in 14.5-20" barrels, though, the groups were what you expect. Around 1 MOA, lending credence to ART’s statement.
I think maybe the TSX design for whatever reason doesn’t like sub 14.5" barrels in the 70gr weight. Some have had issues with the 62gr weight in this application, as well.
It is the length of the projectile that causes problems with gyroscopic stability. they are so long the extra velocity gives you more stability, and it seems the shorter barrel cannot provide the speed for a high enough degree of stability.
This graph was taken from a post by a gentlemen named molon from TOS he also stated velocity from his 20 inch barrel was 2889 iirc. So an sbr with a barrel shorter than 14.5 and you can see where velocity can be slow enough to be borderline stable.
anyone know where to get some 50gr tsx? Seems like it has dried up.
No, not really. A GSTAB of 1.3 is idea. I don’t think these are going less than 1800fps from anything over 10".
I did some water jug testing a while back and found that the 50gr TSX and the 62gr TSX retained their petals whilethe 53 and 55gr TSX lost petals every time.
The 50gr had an impact velocity of 3020fps, penetrated 3 jugs, and expanded to .50". The 53gr impacted at 2990fps, lost all 4 petals, and penetrated 6 jugs. The 55gr impacted at 2950fps, lost 3 petals, and penetrated 5 jugs. The 62gr impacted at 2810fps, expanded to .48", and penetrated 5 jugs.
I’m sure the 53 and 55gr bullets would perform exactly like the 62gr at a reduced impact velocity, but when driven to an impact velocity of around 3000fps they don’t hold together. The 50gr was noticably thicker at the base of the petal, but as has been stated it won’t expand down to as low a velocity as the other typical Barnes bullets.
Here are a couple pics:
55gr TRU, 50gr TSX, 53gr TSX, 55gr TSX, 62gr TSX
50gr TSX, 55gr TSX, 62gr TSX
