Nosler reports a min. velocity expansion threshold of 1600fps, I dont know what the velocity you are getting out of a 10.5" barrel but I would be surprised if it didnt expand out to at least 100yds. Also Im not sure why your dept. requirement is 150 yds or m?
We had high hopes for their 64 gr Defense round, but I can say it failed quite spectacularly when we tested it at 100 yds. It may still prove to be a good round, but the stuff we tested was a no go. As far as velocity the Nosler round was chrono’ing at right around 2400 FPS, and with an expansion floor of 1600 fps we had high hopes as that should take us pretty close to 200 yds. And then we actually shot it into gelatin… and the dream died.
If anyone mil/LE/Fed/etc is interested in the data we have collected regarding SBR’s and rifle rounds drop me a PM with your work email and I’ll send you guys what we’ve gotten.
-Jenrick
I am not LE/MIL, but I have my own data on what it does out of barrels as short as 7.5".
0.344" expansion, full retention, and 17.5" of penetration is what I’ve seen in tests with impact velocities at around 2200fps.
I’m interested in what you got from the round, but that’s my data on it.
My other recommendation for a 10.5" gun where over penetration is a non-issue is ASYM or SSA 5.56 pressure 70gr TSX.
I own several boxes of Federal’s 62 grain Fusion rounds. How do they stack up?
Federal 62 grain FUSION
The Federal 62 grain Fusion bullet appears to have a very similar design to that of the Speer 64 grain Gold Dot. Both are bonded bullets, have the same advertised muzzle velocity and both have the unique Gold Dot boat-tail shape. While this load is being marketed as a “deer” load, it has all the makings of a good barrier-blind load.
It’s difficult to see with the naked eye, but the Fusion bullet has a “skived” tip.
As seen above, the Fusion bullet has a cannelure and the case mouth is crimped. The lot that I evaluated is loaded in Lake City 09 brass cases. The primer pockets are crimped and sealed and the load is charged with “ball” powder.
The advertised velocity for this load is 3000 fps. From a 20" Colt barrel with a NATO chamber, chrome lining and a 1:7” twist, the 62 grain Federal Fusion bonded soft-point had a muzzle velocity of 2877 fps. The claimed ballistic coefficient for this bullet is 0.339.
The accuracy of this load was excellent for a soft-point bullet. A 10-shot group fired from my Krieger barreled AR-15, at a distance of 100 yards, had an extreme spread of almost exactly 1 MOA.
…
I have my own data on what it does out of barrels as short as 7.5". 0.344" expansion, full retention, and 17.5" of penetration is what I’ve seen in tests with impact velocities at around 2200fps.
That’s at 150 yds? I can’t see a way you’d have an impact velocity of 2200fps, considering it comes out of the bore at around 2300 in a 10.5" gun.
I’m interested in what you got from the round, but that’s my data on it.
Let me find out what is considered public data, and I’ll share what I can.
My other recommendation for a 10.5" gun where over penetration is a non-issue is ASYM or SSA 5.56 pressure 70gr TSX.
It is, that’s why we’ve been doing so much testing at distance. All the rounds we’ve tested basically turn into an AP round at distance out of an SBR.
-Jenrick
After molons post I’m defiantly grabbing a few boxes of federal fusion to see what my rifles think of them.
as always thank you molon for the detailed,through, and in-depth info
The round was fired from a 7.5" barrel, that is why impact velocity was so low.
Recent thread with gel test.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?170234-223-gel-test-Federal-62-gr-Fusion
Anyone know what fusion velocity would be out of a 10.5 at 150?
Quote:"We had high hopes for their 64 gr Defense round, but I can say it failed quite spectacularly when we tested it at 100 yds. It may still prove to be a good round, but the stuff we tested was a no go. As far as velocity the Nosler round was chrono’ing at right around 2400 FPS, and with an expansion floor of 1600 fps we had high hopes as that should take us pretty close to 200 yds. And then we actually shot it into gelatin… and the dream died.
If anyone mil/LE/Fed/etc is interested in the data we have collected regarding SBR’s and rifle rounds drop me a PM with your work email and I’ll send you guys what we’ve gotten.
-Jenrick
Last edited by jenrick; 05-02-15 at 11:31."
In all honesty I haven’t seen a similar comment like this about the Nosler Defense round, wonder what your issue was? Actually just thinking about it after reading a bit more, the 50gr TSX seems to go a bit quicker, maybe that’s better in a SBR?
50 gr tsx performs great out of an 8" barrel so I’d say it’s worth a shot. If someone chrono ed it in both and plugged into a bells tics Calc youd have a decent idea.
CHP used the Winchester 64gr PP for many years before switching to a bonded load. From what I have heard they had good results in all cases except when encountering vehicles, and especially windshields (hence the switch to the bonded load). Many deer have been taken with this load as well, a good success, and the hunters report large wound channels, and deep penetration.
Any of the .223/5.56 conventional (unbonded) 64gr loads, bonded loads in 55-64gr, and monolithic 50-70gr Barnes loads work very well. The heavy OTMs are falling out of favor due to very poor barrier performance, and greater velocity dependence, but they are great on unobstructed shots. The biggest mistake people make is trying to use lightly constructed varmint bullets, and OTMs to get into vehicles. Most .223/5.56 failures are with 55gr, and below varmint style bullets that are not suitable for defensive use.
Here are some shootings involving .223/5.56 that were successful. As I mentioned before some of the greatest failures of the round involved suspects in vehicles, or behind cover. Many of these are using 55gr loads, and below.
http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/las-vegas/official-police-not-wife-killed-jerad-miller
http://www.beaumontenterprise.com/news/article/BPD-cop-wounds-80-year-old-in-shootout-5578256.php
Are there any documented cases not involving barriers ,of any 5.56 round failing to stop a bad guy with a solid torso hit?
There was a guy who took multiple pistol and 556 rounds before going down and they still had to wrestle him into cuffs before he bled out. Many hits were in the chest but don’t know what the internal damage was.
Howdy,
Very interesting thread!
Thanks do all the useful and helpful information.
Paul
How about the blackhills 62gr tsx 5.56 round…any info?
My testing shows that it penetrates slightly less than the 70gr, and expands violently while retaining 100% of its mass in close-up water jug shots. The 70gr GMX I tested, did NOT do this. It fragged and tumbled. I really like the 62gr TSX, but it averages about 2.5 MOA out of my rifle (10 shot groups, 100 yards, Aimpoint and magnifier) while RA556B manages 2.0 MOA (same story) average of 3 10-shot groups, no fliers discounted.
I am awaiting my 75gr Gold Dots to arrive.