I have been reading all over the net for a week but have not found information related to the effects of regular window pane glass on a 5.56/.223 round. I am planning to acquire a small carbine dedicated to indoor only home defense and want to minimize risk to my neighbors who live 15->30 yards away. The problem is that my house has more windows around the perimeter than brick/wallboard so I am concerned about collateral damage.
The question: Is there a 5.56/.223 round that would be at least as safe as other common home defense types when shot through standard window glass (9mm, .40, .45, 00 Buck etc)? I am looking for the best balance of performance/safety.
As an alternate option, I am also considering a house carbine in either 9mm or 5.7x28 but I didn’t find information on the effects on glass on these either. I am open to SBR’ing an AR but would prefer to stay at 16" to avoid paperwork.
You may very well hear a lot of different opinions on your question. Here’s mine:
You need to change your thinking. Get away from “what is the best bullet for if I miss” to “what is the best bullet when I hit”. Choose a defensive round that will work well on a human target, invest in training (especially lowlight training) and then invest in a quality carbine equipped in such a fashion that will maximize your ability to make that critical shot.
Every bullet has a lawyer attached to it, and a window ain’t gonna stop one.
To your point, I agree good skills and quality equipment trump all. The nature of my question really is that while there are many adequate loads, I want the one that is the least lethal once it goes through a window. So for example, I like the Hornady 75gr TAP load and the Black Hills 77gr MatchKing. However, if I used a Speer 63gr soft point, I would assume it to be adequate as well and among the three, one is bound to be less lethal in a miss situation. The question is whether or not two 3mm layers of glass will disrupt any bullet in any caliber enough to make a difference.
Your not going to find a 5.56 round that is less leathel after encountering just a pane or two of glass. Also glass has a tendency of makeing lite bullets deflect, so you may not be able to predict the path of the round after it penitrates the glass.
5.56 has a lot less energy if it encounters a wall or other such solid object.
You may think about finding a carbine in a pistol caliber that has glazier saftey slug or similar rounds availeable. That way you would have the carbine you want in a round that has little chance of doing collateral damage if you miss .
From the responses, it looks like I might as well just assume the windows aren’t even there and make decisions from there. In my situation, it looks like am headed down the road of a 9mm or .45 carbine. Pistol rounds are adequate in the 0->15 yard range while being somewhat less lethal beyond the perimeter of the house in a miss situation. Seems to be the best balance of performance/safety.
Not sure you’re correct here. A pistol round is affective way beyond 15 yards.
See if you can find locations in your house where you can engage a threat so that a wall is behind them and not a window. If you can change your angle of attach slightly you may be able to solve your problem. If you’re shooting a rifle you should have a much better hit ratio at 15 yards than you will have with a pistol.
Bullets go through walls. Bullets go through windows. .45 ACP and 9mm will penetrate walls and windows with more remaining wounding capability than pretty much any 5.56.
Thekatar gave very good advice.
Don’t linger on the over-pen argument, choose the most caipable ammo available. If you are unwilling to accept the very small probability that someone else may be injured due to your actions to protect your family, buy a bat.
In my original post on this topic you should notice that I recomended a round for the carbine known as a glazier or similarsafty slug. They are known to not go thru walls or windows and have very little remaining energy as they are esentialy a jacket filled with bird shot that ruptuers after its first encounter with a solid object. Great for takeing care of bad guys but will limit your chance of injureing someone outside your home.
Those Glasiers are lighter, faster rounds that will probably deliver a shallow wound. I didn’t know they still made those things. They could be lethal, but I’ve never heard of anyone recommending them for home defense or carry.
Typically, penetration with some expansion are desireable characteristics in a defensive load. Those Glasiers are more like a frangible than they are a real bullet.
Your best bet is the best perfoming round against a human threat. That would generally be 75 gr. TAP or 77 gr. mk262, though xm193 seems to perform well, if a bit inconsistently.
I personally have 75 gr. TAP loaded in my HD carbine.
Thekatar has given you the best advised. Get training and select a round that works well on human targets.
I also use 75gr TAP (red box) in my HD gun and at work. Department changed from Ranger soft points to the TAP 75gr HP about a year or so ago. Shooting investigation have shown that the department liability has been reduced by training and the use of TAP in our duty rifles. Handguns still hold the most liability connected to them. During some of the investigation we were unable to recover or account for some of the handgun rounds. That’s bad, very bad.
My goal is maximum lethality while minimizing collateral damage when/if possible. Based on these “wild and crazy” parameters, a best round does indeed exist for this situation . Fortunately I received some quality responses that provided good options to look into.
If you are looking to maximize lethality in an indoor environment, while minimizing the possibility of hurting someone else via going through walls, glass etc., then a high velocity rifle is probably not your best bet. This type of rifle is primarily used for shooting mid to long range targets, and unless your house is 50-200 yards long, you really don’t need the distance accuracy.
My suggestion for this type of scenario: buy yourself an inexpensive 12 gauge sawed-off shotgun, then cut the barrel down to about 3/4" longer than the shortest legal length in your state (I think it’s 18" here in Wyoming, BUT MAKE ABSOLUTLY POSITIVE THAT THE BARREL IS LEGAL BY A FAIR MARGIN).
Not much will survive a direct shot from a shotgun at indoor range, but after passing through a wall 20 feet away, most of the BBs will have lost much of their momentum, minimizing risk to people on the other side of that wall.
Welcome to M4C. I know that you are trying to help and that what you recommended makes sense to you in your own mind but what you recommended is very poor advice, for several reasons.
. Fortunately I received some quality responses that provided good options to look into.