I have been trying to find defensive ammunition that would produce less recoil in my XD .45ACP Compact and came across Federal Premium Personal Defense Low Recoil Ammunition 45 ACP 165 Grain Hydra-Shok Jacketed Hollow Point. I was wondering if anyone has any experience with this ammunition? I know shot placement is one of the most important aspect of self defense and trigger control, but ammunition plays a part and I am looking to use good ammo with as little recoil as possible. Thanks. I anyone has any suggestions on self defense ammo please add that to this thread.
You could always handload if you have the time. I’ve worked up a load for my match 1911 that cycles reliably with ball but doesn’t kick a lot. I wouldn’t want it for defense because of excessive muzzle flash. Bullseye pistol shooters use weak springs and low-powered semiwadcutter loads, which other than on a bullseye range are not what you want either.
You might could look at Cor-Bon’s DPX, which I believe is also a 165-grain projectile. However, it’s also probably over $1 per round. Before spending a lot of time and money on a quest for less recoil in a .45, I would suggest a couple of other options:
It could be that more and/or better training will enable you to manage .45 recoil with standard loads. Hundreds of thousands of law enforcement officers have learned to do this, and you probably have more talent than most of them.
How about a 9mm XD? This has less recoil, good-enough fighting power with modern hollowpoints, and practice ammo costs half as much.
Just out of curiosity, what is the motivation for reduced recoil defensive ammo in .45?
Stick with the 230 gr rounds. The lighter rounds have more felt recoil than the 230 gr.
The Ranger T or Hydra-shok bonded are the two that I use. Approx 850 fps is as low as I would recommend for a defense load.
It’s a 45. What did you expect? Recoil like a 9mm? Cowboy up! LOL…
Interesting, out of my full-sized 1911, I find that standard pressure lighter ammo has less recoil than 230 gr. standard pressure ammo. However, the descriptor may be misleading. The 165s and 185s seem to have a snappier or sharper recoil pulse, but it is less in duration and hence does not upset the sight picture as much as 230 gr stuff that has a pushier recoil that seems to be over a longer duration and is more prone to disturb the sight picture longer.
The lighter ammo seems to have a more violent, sharper if you may, recoil IMO. The 230gr seem to spread the recoil out, longer duration, which to me seems less violent. A standard 165 moves at about 1050 fps or faster (same fps as the +P ammo) while the standard 230 move at 850 fps (factory LE or Defensive loads). To me shooting the light stuff is like shooting the 230+P. I use the High-grip-thumbs-forward grip so the gun does not take longer for me to get back on target. As a matter of fact the gun hardly moves with the heaver rounds. That includes my compact guns. Limp wristed shooters will most likely agree with you because they let the gun move on it’s own. The gun is in control not the shooter. That seems to account for slow follow up shots and poor accuracy.
The problem isnt that I cant control the XD45. I was just looking to see if I could gain an advantage with low recoil ammo. 
That is a topic you would have to take up with Federal. They have significantly more information and skill at making ammo than I. I figured that since it was described as defensive ammo that their would be some advantage to using the ammo. I am just trying to get any edge I can for my SD handgun.
At present I use 45 ACP Federal LE Tactical HST 230gr. +P HP and 45 ACP Federal LE Tactical EFMJ 200gr. +P in a stagger formation in my XD45 Compact. So I am used to the recoil of the XD45. I am just trying to find out if there is another round that might give me similar results with a little less recoil.
[QUOTE=Gunfighter13;77937] I use the High-grip-thumbs-forward grip so the gun does not take longer for me to get back on target. As a matter of fact the gun hardly moves with the heaver rounds. QUOTE] I am trying to get used to the high grip thumbs forward grip at present. This grip seems to allow me more control over the gun than any other grip I have previously used. The only problem that I have been running into is that I hit the take down lever with my thumb occassionally. I know it is just a matter of more practice and more classes. I figured that if I could find quality low recoil ammo that provided good defensive results then I would have another advantage in a self denfese situation.
OK, now I find this subject to be even more odd.
Most of the reduced recoil handgun ammo is intended for the sub-compact pistols. The first time I saw ammo like this was just after the G26/27 were introduced and companies started making ammo that was supposed to be optimized for the shorter barrels and lighter frames.
Stick to regular ammo in the fullsize guns. Generally speaking, defensive ammo isn’t one of the things that is worth over-thinking.
The easiest thing for you to do is stop using the +P ammo. It is not needed. The standard 230gr bonded HST is all you need. Not trying to be a “SA” but why two different kinds of ammo in the same magazine?
I think you have confused the concepts of marksmanship and accuracy. I don’t see any significant differences in the accuracy of either 165, 185, 200, or 230 gr. ammo. Some folks may not do as well with as well with recoil and that may upset their followup shots, but that is an issue of marksmanship.
Funny you think the 165 stuff is so brutal. My wife loves it.
I avoid low-recoil anything, whether its pistol rounds or shotgun rounds. The only way its low-recoil is if there is less energy going down range. Pistols are pretty pathetic fight stoppers without downloading them.
I just returned from an FBI firearm instructor course. They discussed their 40 S&W load that is downloaded. The general consensus with their ballistic people is that the bullet performs like a high-quality 9mm, not a 40 S&W, it simply isn’t moving fast enough.
I go out of my way to carry +P 45 on-duty. 1) I have a standard Sig P220 and the 4.4" barrel needs the extra powder to push the bullet to proper velocity 2) I like the noice for psychological reasons.
If you want a compact pistol, with a barrel less than 4.0", I’d look at a 40 S&W. Those rounds are designed to work in short barrels. 45 JHP, especially 230 gr, expect a 5" barrel.
Hold on tighter.
Confused me? Not at all. But I think you are. We were talking about one aspect of the whole. Perceived recoil. The difference in low recoil, standard and +P ammo as it related to maintaining shot placement in a self-defense gunfight. Any ammo that would give him the same results as the +P ammo he currently uses. No one has even come close to talking about “The Fundamentals of Marksmanship” :rolleyes:
I have been trying to find defensive ammunition that would produce less recoil in my XD .45ACP Compact
Give the Winchester 185 Silvertip a try and let us know what you think.
Keith
I see one of the replies recommended handloading. Using handloaded ammo for self defense is generally considered to be a very bad idea as it’s not defensible in court and creates legal liability issues.
There are many good self defense loads commercially available. My personal choice for self defense concealed carry is Federal Premium .45 Auto +P 200 grain (P45CSP1). This is their Expanding Full Metal Jacket round. It is a +P loading with less perceived recoil than 230 gr. ball. It’s flat point full metal jacket with polymer ball insert ensures consistent reliable feeding in handguns and expansion in soft tissue. This load also has a very small, almost negligible flash signature.
Actually, the argument that Ayoob seems to make time and time again is not that handloads are not defensible in court, but that that produce gun shot reside that is not standardized and hence cannot be used to support one’s claims about things such as shooting distances. Commercial loads are produced on a consistent basis with a standard loading per make and model of ammo such that it will produce consistent patterns when fired from a given gun and that those patterns can be replicated after the fact. This isn’t always the case with handloads and so Ayoob has provided a couple of cases where handloads were used but that GSR evidence necessary to the case that would justify the shooter’s claims for self defense could not be ascertained because of a lack of specific information on what sort of GSR would be produced by that particular handload.
Actually, you seemed to be referring to problems of marksmanship with the uberpowerful lower weight ammo when you said,
Up until this point, nobody had mentioned accuracy or marksmanship, but you do here.
uhhhh … why? how? Does use of handloads change a justified shooting to unjustified? I just checked Lexis’ entire database of reported federal cases with keyword “handload” and couldn’t find any case where anybody had sued anybody else for shooting them with handloads.
I’m familiar with Uncle Mas’ theory of gunshot residue and it seems to me that this is only important if the shooting is so close as to leave residue. You also have to remember which box or lot of ammo you were using. In our department, the firearms instructor just dumps me out 15 rounds of .45 Ranger SXT every year from whatever container they happened to be in. Beats me what lot they’re from.
I’m not saying handloads are preferable, just questioning “legal liability” folklore wherever I find it. I carry factory ammo for serious use. Every now and then, one of my handloads doesn’t turn out so good, but I haven’t had a problem with Winchester Ranger, Cor-Bon DPX, or Black Hills match.