3RD Burst vs. Full Auto

True statements. I’m not sure where the confusion may be setting in here, but if the weapon is drilled for the sear, then the question of burst versus full-auto simply boils down to what parts reside in the lower of that particular model/generation/specification.

Chief

I don’t like the 3 round burst for a few reasons. For starters it messes with your semi auto trigger pull. You get two lighter pulls and one heavy one. Second the cam is always counting. So if you fire a few rounds in semi your first burst will not be 3 rounds it will be 1 or 2 or maybe three if you are lucky.

Full auto is far better. Your finger is your burst control. You should be able to control easily the amount of ammo you deliver with just your finger. Rather thats 2 to 4 rounds.
Pat

I never really notice a differents in the trigger pull but yes the cam is always counting the first burst can be off.their are some 4 position kits that give you a burst and full auto too.but i have never fired one.good points though:)

There is two dis connectors in the burst guns and every third shot you have to release both dis connectors to fire the shot. That is why you have the heavier trigger pull every third round. I simply prefer fixing training problems with more training vs simply throwing equipment at the problem.
Pat

3rd Burst in the M16FOW is TERRIBLE – it ruisn the semi trigger pull to a disgusting point.

I’ve never need Auto ever operationally - but I’d much rather have the auto ability - and have a good semi-auto pull.

The Army tried to instill a mechanical system where the issue was training.

KevinB

3rd Burst in the M16FOW is TERRIBLE – it ruisn the semi trigger pull to a disgusting point.

You can say that again… The trigger on a A2 is awful…

Three rd burst is a waste in my Opinion.

and Auto has special applications that are very narrow in scope.

Kevin,

You are correct. They put a mechanical device in the weapon rather than train personnel proper shooting and when to use accurate aimed fire or full-auto fire. I can see FA for room clearing, breaking contact on a near ambush or suppressing the hordes as they come across the wire, other than that it should be one shot, one kill.

25M death is ridiclous as well. I can understand in some situations due to range or time limitations, but larger bases should have better ranges and they should run hard.

I’ve noticed I can controll longer F/A burst – some Brit 22 guys where showing us that years ago with their M16A1’s - and I thought they where crazy – but now at almsot 38 and 215lbs plus 45+ of gear - I can see that its a lot easier than I though those many year and pounds ago.

When we’d go South and shoot against people in competitions some of the convetional mil guys they’d start thinking short barrels where a hinderance - and they quickly learned their trigger was the biggest hinderance on the weapon. I’d say dont worry not even I can make an A2 shoot good :smiley:

I have always been taught that you never shoot just once. We train that if someone is worth shooting once they are worth shooting twice and sometimes more.
Pat

very good point ,when did the army start using 3 burst early 80’s?I know the training I got was things i already knew. it really blew my mind that so many people that Got to BRM never had held a rifle.95% of what we did was on semi-auto,the trigger pull never really bothered me.Most of the ranges we used out to 300 meters ,I was able to use the M4 very well.when we did use the tri-burst during convoy live fire,Red dot optics,Night time with the lazer and Night Vision.the younger ones would “Rambo” it and not take controled aimed shots .I felt with the BRM the army could have been a little more up to speed.

But like I am told the" tri-burst is to save ammo".with a good trained soldier full auto would be perfect ,like with the saw and 240 4-9 second burst very effective.But with the Troops i have seen and I am sure the people here have seen it too, some of the soldiers could not use a full auto .They are just not trained well enough on the weapons ,they would dump a mag and hit nothing .army’s thinking make it go 3 shots will cause the soldier to aim the shots,Not by what I saw ,

 But who am I to question the ARMY:) .it is more parts but if you never really shot to that degree before,the harder stiff pull in semi to me is just not that big of a deal.I still can make it do what I need to save my ass.I have owned Ak-47 type weapons since the 80's so the pull of that stiff trigger  in my M4 still was a step up from the AK ,I was so use to blasting away with.But again the M4A1 is still Full auto.But I never saw any of those it was all M4 A3 tri-burst.

But can you fire a full auto M4 and hit a center mass just as good as the tri-burst.with out shooting sky?I only shot the 249 saw and 240 bravo and mk-19 ,50 cal in full .with the saw deployed in your fire team why do you need to lay down that volume of fire from the stardard rifle?does it not turn the soldier into more of a rifleman instead of a machine gunner?:confused:

+1, two in the chest !that is what was drilled into my head.I even double tap my handgun now:)

I was paraphrasing. Obviously one shot will not always solve the problem and generally speaking I do double taps as the rule.

I have seen units that had M16A1’s that had been retrofitted with A2 stocks, A2 handguards, and 3-rd burst fire control components.

My point was regardless of what FCS is in the lower or what is stamped on the lower, the sear is identical in a 3rd burst and auto-gun. I also had a burst gun M16A2, that I converted to auto and into the A4 configuration.

I know, I was just chiming in. :stuck_out_tongue:

I trained alongside a ARNG combat engineering unit in Ft. Lewis. i forget what state they were from, but these guys had A2s, with some weird plate under the pistol grip, which blocked the selector from going to the burst position.

talk about reluctance to solve a training problem. wtf?

I believe that is a restrictor that is suppose to be installed due to civil unrest and the military is not suppose to carry full auto in to the public but this was not the case in when they went into downtown Katrina -ville.that part is talked about in the Technical manual for the M-16

very good to know. tks.

3 rnd burst is a crutch.

Im new to the site and would like to know which states are “Auto” friendly. Is GA one of them?