Can you share any experience you’ve had with these bullet weights beyond the 500 yard mark?
(we’re getting about 2515 FPS with 175s from our 20" Rem 700s)
Thats good speed what powder are you using? I ran a few boxes of the 175smk out of my 308 24" out to 1k with great results. Before switching to the AMAX. I never could get the 168g smk to stabalize to my liking out of a 1-10. I dont think it was ever designed to rotate that fast out to 1k.
I have sence stuck with the 175smk even in the 1-11 twist of my M1A.
Im on a heavy bullet kick now 208g AMAX its fun speeds are lower of course but the groups dont lie.
I’m running 42.8 grains of Varget with the 175 set to magazine length in Lapua brass.
We get 2511 fps and 2513 fps out of My 700 and Pappabears 5R 700 respectively.
The 168 SMK was specifically designed for Olympic and International 300-Meter shooting. It was just incidental that they shoot well/OK to 600 yards (the US highpower National Match Course).
They tend to go trans-sonic around 850 yards when launched at around 2550-2600 fps. It helps to have a 1-10 or 1-11 twist.
The 155 SMK pushed out of a longer 28-30 inch barrel around 2900 fps is shot by many Palma competitors due to goofy British and Commonwealth laws (where you can own one rifle per specified purpose, specifically for long-range competition). If you can’t show a need (and show you’ve actually shot or practiced that discipline in the last year) you lose your license. Communists.
The 175 SMK has the same ogive profile as the 155 but obviously is heavier, retaining velocity better past 1,000 yards when launched between 2550 and 2700 fps.
The 175 SMK or the current 180 Sierra Game King (with the older 180 Match King boat-tail) will probably give you better results if you’re tending toward the shorter barrels. You can’t exploit the benefits of the 168 and 155 ballistic coefficients if you can’t launch them fast enough.
168 grain OTM generally have more trans-sonic stability issues than similar mass AMAX or 175 grain OTM. Thus, I generally stick to 175 grain OTM for my long range shooting in 308.
Having said that, I do think that the TAP 155 or 168 grain AMAX is the best balance of long range accuracy and terminal performance.
Yeah… my trajectory chart shows the 175 staying super sonic to 1000.
We may give the 180s a try too. Thanks.
So, how far out do the 168’s perform well in your opinion. 500? 700?
800? Where is the pretty hard and fast cut off? What can we reliably and consistently run the 168’s?
Mine is 11.25 twist 20 inch. Marks is a 20 inch SPS, I forget the twist?
1/12 Hammer forged barrel according to REM’s site.
I dont even mess with the 168gSMK if you want a real edge and would like to stick with a match target type of bullet. I would look at the 175g Berger VLD, Bryan Litz has put alot of time into that bullet to up the BC and stabalize the transonic flight.
Also I’m not a Varget fan, that in its self means very little who am I right. Well I would give R15,VV-N540 a try and see if it pushes you speeds up I think it will.
If you realy want to go nuts look at the 208g AMAX or 210 VLD and some VV-N550 or R17.
We ran a pound of R15 and didn’t hit anything too exciting. We’ve also been messing with IMR 4064, but Varget performed more consistently in velocity between the two guns.
We might circle back to it sometime… now that I’ve got the bullet runout down and we have decent triggers in both guns.
I know people complain about lot to lot variations in Varget. I’m just burnt out on load development for now.
I have a 20" 1:12 twist Rem 700 as well (its a cut down 700P 26" barrel)
Have you shot 175s out of it yet? Does it perform adequately? I usually stick to 168gr because I am concerned 1:12 won’t stabilize the heavier bullets in a shorter barrel.
Stabilizes them pretty good. The flyer on the top right made this group about 1 inch at 200 yards. These fly at 2475 fps though.
168s will shoot very, very well to 500. After 500 the 175 starts to beat the 168 for wind-bucking capability.
I’ve not shot enough 30-cal Hornady A-MAX or Berger bullets to say how they perform.
43.5 of IMR 4064 or 43.5-44 of Varget are very good loads for both bolt-action and semi-auto .308/7.62 rifles. 4895 is also a good powder, but it’s been a long time since I’ve loaded any.
Vihtavuori 540 is a good powder for trying to get higher velocities at standard pressure due to its longer burning curve, but it may not be a good powder for semi-autos.
42-44 of TAC pushing a 175 is very good OUT OF A BOLT GUN, NOT A SELF-LOADER.
Obviously an 18-20 inch .308 has handling benefits, but what you gain in mobility and balance you lose in velocity (however marginally).
Never sacrifice precision and accuracy for velocity. You can’t miss fast enough.
168’s will hit the wall at 850-900fps at my AO. Up in the mountains where the air is lighter they tend to push out past 1000yds a bit. … but they are unpredictable.
I’ve never had to look past the 175SMK when it comes to 308.
Now, in the longer (28-30") barrels, the 155’s can be pushed fast enough to trump them, but you need at least 2900-2950fps to make that happen. If you can get a 175 up to 2700fps, it is a force to be reckoned with. My 18" krieger spits them out about 2550fps, with my 20" remmy’s matching it. My 22" DTA however is just shy of 2700fps. There is a NOTICEABLE difference between them.
With the 155’s available now (and newer ones on the way), and the 175’s, 178’s, and 208’s on the top end… the 168’s are becoming irrelevant very fast.
It’s about time you got in here. And I’m liking the 175s too.
With the 155’s available now (and newer ones on the way), and the 175’s, 178’s, and 208’s on the top end… the 168’s are becoming irrelevant very fast.
We have a pile of 168s to shoot up still. Guess we’ll keep them for sub 500 yard shooting.
We will definitely know what the 168’s will do because we have another box to burn up. My LMT like them OK and the 700’s have done well too. No doubt there good bullets, but it looks like the 175’s will be the go to bullet for past 500 over time.
We shall let you know how they do at 600 -700-800…because we shall try them heavily this weekend. Were pushing our way out to 1,000 at 100 yard intervals and testing our dope and trying to get some decent records on velocities too.
Thanks for all the feedback guys.
Sorry, I’ve been out slaying pronghorn with my bow. 
Killed a 12" buck at 53yds and a doe at 65. Gotta love modern archery equipment.
Will be gone for the next week again, as some mule deer need to be stabbed next.
Cool. Pappa had it out with a Turkey a few weeks back… should have brought his Rem 700 instead of his bow I think. 
My experience mirrors Sinister’s, and that man seriously knows his stuff. I’ve settled on 155’s (2156 SMK) for my match load. Out of my 20" Rock 11 twist, I get 175’s to 2640…but I am sending the 155’s at 2890. It is, in my opinion, a waste of time to shoot 168’s in 308 unless you are limited to 600 yards, or are wanting to experiment as to where the bullet will actually go transonic. If I were in a situation that I was issued 168gr ammo (i.e. LEO), then things are obviously different.
155’s get me there flatter, which helps a bit with my UKD targets, and with .3-.4 mil less wind than my 175 load. I’m a big fan of 155’s in “tactical” marksmanship matches.
An even more interesting experiment is the 208 Amaxes and RL17. It do thump, and hard at that, but with the right speeds give wind ballistics that rival 6.5mm offerings.
I do love bolt guns and competitive shooting!
Do the longer AMaxes in weights over 200gr cause any case capacity issues when loaded mag length (AICS)? Any 30cal load that is beating out the 123gr 6.5 offerings is doing something right, I just can’t figure out what that tradeoff is.