Hey, I’m looking for some pics of 3-Gun ARs. Generally, anything that you use for 3-Gun; specifically, an M4 profile barrel, M4 handguards and a 1-4x scope S&B short-dot style. I’m looking into getting a Millet DMS-1 and I’m wondering how it would look w/ my current set-up. Plus I’m in a picture mood!
My wifes 3gun rifle.
Bushy lower, RRA upper, Colt .625" CAR 16" barrel 1x9 twist w/shaved FSB to fit under tube, Bennie Cooley Comp, JP/VTAC tube, Colt bolt & carrier, RRA CH, Magpul CTR stock, McCormick trigger, Magpul MIAD grip, Armalite 1" scope mount with Weaver 1-3x 1" scope, JP short range sight, the green on the upper receiver and barrel is Brownells OD GunKote.
My 3gun rifle.
Bushy lower, VLTOR MUR upper, Geissele trigger, RRA 16" 1x9 twist midlength barrel w/shaved FSB to fit under tube, JP/VTAC tube, Colt bolt and carrier, PRI Gas Buster CH, VLTOR E-MOD stock, Daniel Defense sling mounts, Tangodown pistol grip, Flatland Forge F2 comp, Harris bipod, LaRue bipod/Aimpoint/SPR-E mounts. Aimpoint H1 and Leupold Vari-X III 1.5-5x scope with German No.4 reticle, the tan on the tube and barrel is Norrells Moly tan.
Here’s what I’ve been using,
RRA upper and lower, w/stock 1/9 heavy barrel w/factory dremeled feedramps and stock BCG (have a spare LMT complete BCG but this one is buttery smooth right now and see no need to swap it out), Chip McCormick drop in single stage trigger, YHM lightweight FF rifle length quad rail and end cap, VLTOR gas block-clamp on, GG&G A2 rear sight, Troy front sight, Millet DMS-1, Gen 2 1-4 scope, Larue SPR-E scope mount, Flatland forge comp, Badger tac-latch, Magpul MIAD grip and CTR. Normally use single point sling if sling required w/QD swivel on CTR.
CMT upper w/M4 ramps, Sabre 1/8 SS fluted med con, mid length gas system barrel, LMT BCG, Troy 10" FF quad rail, Troy front and rear sights, PRI gas buster charging handle, RRA lower w.RRA 2 stage match trigger w/KNS pins, MAGPUL MIAD and CTR, single point sling receiver plate, VLTOR gas block w/set screws and VLTOR comp/brake, EOtech 552, ver F circle dot reticle.
This is a new build, just broke in barrel, will use if match will not have anything past 100 yds in course of fire or may swap optics around with above rifle.
This is my “spare parts” upper I threw together
RRA Upper, RRA 1/8 twist 16" heavy barrel, basement “installed” dremeled feedramps, LMT BCG, YHM lightweight FF carbine length Quad rail and endcap, YHM flip front sight gas block, YHM riser, Millet DMS-1, Gen 1, 1-4 scope w/Warne QD rings, Micreluk Comp, stock mil spec charging handle. Another rather new build, broke in the barrel in this one the same time I did the Sabre above.
Here’s mine. I don’t really play to win, I just do it for the fun and practice.
1:7" SDI M4
1st Gen DMS-1 w/LT-104
MI #20 FF rails
Magpul CTR & MIAD
Sometimes I shoot the same rifle with an Eotech, as well.
Serious 3 gun rifles will have a rifle gas system for it’s smoother functioning and minimal recoil.
ANY gun can be used in 3 gun though.
It’s just that the faster guys will have dedicated uppers.
Here’s an old picture of mine. (it changes every few months)
I think it would be helpful to know some of the parameters of the 3-gun matches you shoot in when looking at these rifles. Since there doesn’t appear to be any uniformity in matches from town-to-town in terms of distance of targets engaged, scoring used, etc.
We don’t do shotgun, but in our carbine/pistol matches we see Aimpoints more than any other optic. We generally run CQB distances due to range constraints, equipment constraints, and the long stage reset involved when shooting paper at any distance over 25 yards. We try to work in longer distance and small targets when we can, but we’re limited to approximately 130 yards and 4" steel plates. Even then, the better shooters are able to hit the plate at that distance with reasonable reliability with 1x optic.
We require that shooters keep the rifle in the same configuration for the whole match, use only one rifle for the whole match, and bipods are the only banned piece of equipment.
Our scoring greatly rewards accuracy over speed, with 30 second penalties for failing to neutralize a target or hitting a non-threat target, 10 second for procedurals (like not using cover) and 100 seconds for a Failure to Do Right (willful violation of the rules or course design). We also try to throw things out there like threat-ID, shoot-throughs, shooting from the back of moving vehicles, shooting moving targets, etc. In other words, we try to get you to shoot, accurately, while thinking.
So far we don’t see too many space guns. We get some bleed over from the IPSC 3-gun crowd and they generally start out brining out the spaceguns, but once they have to start moving around with the rifle, transitioning to pistol, shooting from un-conventional positions, etc. even they usually show up with lighter/simpler setups eventually.
I run a 3x Compact ACOG on my game gun. It’s also a .625" dia. 16" barrel with a carbine gas system. Recoil is way more noticeable than with a heavy barrel and break, but trying to shoot handgun on the move with a slung 20" HBAR pretty much sucks.
I would love to try IPSC 3-gun or some of the matches I hear and read about that engage targets out to 200 yards and beyond. We just don’t have the facilities to do it here locally.
Do you have to run an optic or is it up to you?
If that was directed to me, no you do not have to run an optic. Some of our most successful shooters are using iron sights.
Rob S
Yeah that was for you. Thanks
I asked this once before and I never got an answer, so I was wondering if any of the 3-gun experts can give me an honest answer.
I know that not all 3-gun competitions are the same, some only shoot out to 100 yards and some go as far as 450 yards. I have an IOR 2.5x10-42 scope on my AR and was wondering if that would be practical or just too much for a 3-gun competition? I seen some guys using 4x ACOGs so I don’t see why this would be a problem. What are your thought for the short 3-gun competitions and longer range 3-gun competitions?
Here is my AR:
There are different classes.
You can shoot in “tactical iron” if you don’t do optics.
The 2.5x minimum will kill you if you don’t have an alternative sight for the short range targets.
I shoot with a 4x acog, but I roll the rifle over to irons for anything under 25yds.
Some of the good types of scopes are similar to these: (no paricular order) weaver 1-3, Meopta 1-4, trijicon 1.25-4, weaver/burris/leupold 1.5-5
I personally would no go any more than 1.25x minimum magnification if you are going to try to look through the optic at all ranges.
4X ACOGs are designed to be used with the Bindon Aiming Concept and work differently than a regular scope in that regard. Even still, they will be slower and shorter range so to be competitive most 3-gunners will mount an alternate 1x optic somewhere on the gun.
Paul since you already are using a LaRue mount and a 2.5-10x scope I would suggest keeping this scope and getting another lower power scope like a 1.5-5x Leupold MR/T, 1-3x CQ/T, MeOpta 1-4x, S&B 1-4x or something equivalent power wise for the shorter and faster stages of 3gun. Low power variables really rule the roost. They give you the best of both worlds, up close at 1x to 1.5x it’s much like using an Aimpoint and for further shots at 4x to 5x is like using an ACOG.
At some matches simply having any optic puts you in Open class. In some (USPSA rules) if you just have 1 optic on your rifle you can shoot in Tactical class (no bipod and comp can’t be bigger than 1" x 3") and irons puts you in Limited.
Thanks guys. I’ve been thinking of putting an Aimpoint Micro on top. I may try that.
What I would do, were I in your shoes, is visit the match you plan on shooting and see what they do. While your current setup probably wouldn’t work very well for the matches I run, I have been to matches that were very much long-range oriented where your rifle would excel.
Right tool for the job, and all that.
Good point. Thanks.
Yeah, it would really depend on the types of matches you are shooting or will be shooting. I only do local matches here in my area and only one out of the 4 ranges has anything over 100yds. For the most part, you wouldn’t need a magnified optic if you needed one at all. Most anything past 100yds is gonna be a 6-8" steel plate/flash target of some type. There are plenty of folks shooting irons. But I think IPSC has several different classes for 3-gun. Open-you can run dual optics on rifle, optic on shotgun and optic and comp on pistol. Tactical-optic on rifle, no optic on shotgun or pistol. Don’t know the name for the iron sight on everything class. Then you have Heavy Metal where no optics, must use .308 or higher, 12 ga pump gun and .45 or larger with only 8 rds per mag.
We also do different scoring at different ranges in the rifle only matches. Some use IPSC scoring, best 2 shots on every IPSC target, other range considers one round in the A or B zone or 2 rounds anywhere on the target a “defeated target” for minor (AR and AK) or if you shoot .308, 1 round on A, B, or C zone is a defeated target. Since I shoot an AR I just double tap everything. It is much easier the second way as far as keeping score. IPSC scoring on all A, B, C, and D hits can be time consuming.
I’m just glad it’s getting a little closer to the Area 6 match cause all the local ranges are doing some throw together 3 gun or rifle only matches. I’ve been shooting IPSC limited for about 2 yrs but I can definetly shoot a rifle better than a pistol and tend to score alot higher in rifle matches.
That’s why we score the way we do. The target is either neutralized or not. It doesn’t require any math and the count can be kept in your head and the scores for an entire match can be written down on a single piece of paper.
It keeps things moving along more quickly.
Some of the clubs in my area have banned the use of muzzle brakes.
It’s always best to visit the club you will be shooting at during a match. Observe and talk to the shooters when they aren’t busy to find out what works and what kind of ranges/targets you will need to engage.