I’ve been kicking around the idea of getting into a 308 AR platform rifle with one of these two 6.5mm rounds. Ballistically they look to be nearly identical so I’m having trouble deciding which is better.
The .260 is a .308 necked down, so brass will always be available. It also uses the same case taper as .308 so it should function as well as .308 in any platform and magazine designed for .308.
The Creedmore is a bit shorter, giving a bit more leeway in seating depth within a magazine length restriction and the brass is supposed to be of excellent quality. I’ve also heard you can form 6.5 Creedmore brass from .308 if you need to, though I haven’t confirmed this yet. Is that true and what would be the process?
Is there anything else I’m missing that would prove to be a significant difference?
I hope this thread grows big legs cause the OP suggested an excellent topic to discuss. I have studied up to some degree and shot a bit of .260rem but never shot or done much research on the 6.5 creedmore.
I can say for certain that the .260rem is a dream to shoot LR with. Only single downfall I can find is it’s rarity and lack of factory loaded ammo. Ballistics wise its one helluva dominating round.
Time for me to sit back and hopefully get educated…
The 6.5C and .260 are essentially balistically identical (if you’ll permit me to make up the word “balistically”.) I had a 6.5 Creedmoor AR10 style rifle, and I currently shoot long range with a .260 bolt gun.
Honestly, the cartridges are similar enough in length (with the 6.5C being ever so slightly shorter) that they can both seat the long 140 grain bullets to mag length without drama, so that aspect shouldn’t be a concern. If you want to know which cartridge is “better” we’re going to get into theory voodoo. While some can argue that the steeper shoulder angle of the 6.5C can help reduce throat erosion, and will help reduce case growth, it can also (again, in theory) make it a little tougher to feed in a semi platform. Now, I never had and troubles with mine, and the difference we’re talking here are far into the realm of “academic.” I’d honestly consider it a wash as for which round is “better.”
When I switched to the .260 for my bolt gun the sole reason was for brass availability at that time. The 6.5C brass was worth its weight in gold, and while good .260 brass is expensive, it is available. Both cartridges sling the same 140 grain bullet at the same speed.
As for brass forming, you could write a whole novel about it. There’s a bunch of discussion about forming both .260 and 6.5C brass from various cases over on Snipers Hide that you can check out.
I’ll start by admitting my personal bias. I’ve had a .260 for 6-7 years now.To me the 6.5CM took the steam out of the 260 Rem going mainstream without bringing any improvements. As I reload it’s not an issue for me.
No good source for 260 match ammo. One source for the 6.5CM but it’s easy enough for any gun shop to carry/order in for a customer. For the reloader it’s the opposite, several sources of 260 brass and easy to make from 234 or 7mm-08 as well. One source of brass for the 6.5CM and it was dry at some point last year from what I’ve heard.
All said we currently make 6.5CM barrels because good quality match ammo is available.
Pure marketing, 6.5CM is loaded to the same 2.800" OAL as the 260 Rem. Both fit in AR-10 and SR-25 mags just fine.
I have been thoroughly impressed on the 3-4 occasions I got to shoot a .260rem AR-10 and I have not taken it past 725yds but at that range this round seems to beg for more whereas a .308 really starts to get funky w. any bit of conditions present at roughly that same range.
CC, Todd…would u say the .260rem’s LR performance would be worth the ammo headache for a non reloader…from my initial time w. this rd. it would seem to be so but again I have limited time w. it to this point. Thanks.
I should also point out that Lapua recently announced that they’re going to make .260 brass. At this point you have a number of choices for .260 brass, with the Lapua and the Nosler Custom being the best choices. You can also run the Remington .260 brass if you weight sort the cases (and possibly turn the necks depending on how anal you want to be.) There’s also the Norma .260 brass, but it gets bad reviews. Personally, I’ve used the Remington brass with decent results, and I currently run the Nosler Custom brass with great results.
How about if you want to use an ultra low form factor .264 bullet like the JLK 140gr VLD? The ogive is .800" long, which works fine in the 6.5 Creedmoor case (max case length 1.920") but makes for an iffy mag length round when loaded in a .260Rem case (max case length 2.035", trimmed to 2.025").
I’m not saying this is the case for every shooter - or even the majority of shooters, but I do believe the Creedmoor case gives you a bit more flexibility when seating those long 6.5 VLDs.
How does the length of the JLK compare to the Berger 140 VLD?
EDIT: I looked it up, according to JBM the Berger is .01 longer than the JLK. I can slip a Berger 140 VLD into a .260 case later and seat it to 2.800 if anyone is interested in what it will end up looking like.
The length of the bullet is less important than the length of the ogive. The ogive will determine how far into the case you can seat the bullet.
ETA: Looks like the Berger 140gr Long Range BT has an overall length of 1.412" and an ogive length of 0.834". Is that the same bullet you’re talking about? The “standard” Berger 140gr BT has an overall length of 1.376" and a ogive length of 0.712".
Yeah, I’m talking about the VLD one, not the standard Berger 140.
On the topic of VLD style bullets, I don’t know what other people have found, but in my experience they’re much less jump tolerant than something like a MatchKing. While you can tune a load with VLDs to shoot very well, the fact that unless you have a custom barrel made you are unlikely to be able to seat the bullet into the lands when loaded to mag length means that you may not see your best accuracy with a heavy VLD when constrained by a relatively short magazine.
Personally, I’d rather work with something like a SMK or AMax in a platform like the AR10 since it will give you more latitude when you’re limited to a short magazine and a chamber that’s likely too long to seat into the lands.
Thanks gents, I honestly figured when I first planned on doing a .260rem MWS about a yr. ago that at least one or two bigger named ammo mfg’rs would put out one or two match factory loads like CC refers to in regards to Hornady’s 6.5 creedmore load. Better do some more homework but honestly given the role of this particular gun, ammo usage will be rather limited and I would be willing to pay somewhat of a premium for match quality loads.
There are a number of reloaders who don’t load to the lands / who have a longer ‘jump’ and don’t seem to suffer from it. Berger put out an article in 2009 (here) describing VLD bullets having a sweet spot between ‘in the lands’ and .150 off the lands.
Can VLD loads fit into and feed from normal SR-15 mags?
The VLDs can be loaded to mag length with either the 6.5C or the longer .260 I don’t have any 6.5C brass any more (that stuff sold almost instantly when I posted it for sale) but here are some shots of a Berger 140VLD that I slipped into a fired .260 case I had lying around. The mag is a 20LR since I don’t have any SR15 mags lying around, but since the OAL is 2.800 it would fit into the SR15 mag just as well. Obviously this would work for 6.5C as well since the case is shorter.
The bearing surface is more than long enough to seat them at this length.
Turns out Berger has three .264 140-grain bullets: the standard BT, the VLD, and the long range BT. The VLD shown in the photos has a nose (ogive) length of .721", which makes it easily compatible with both .260 and 6.5CM limited to 2.800" COAL. The long range BT has a nose length of .834", which is even longer than the JLK 140s.
Anyway, the difference between .260Rem and 6.5CM in terms of seating VLDs is mostly esoterica limited to extreme long range shooting. I just threw that out there to illustrate the Creedmoor case’s little extra bit of flexibility. Obviously, this is just one factor in determining which round is best for you.
