22lr Trainers

General Firearms Precision Rifle - Bolt Gun
1

I have a sickness, a little one. 22 caliber to be exact. I got bit by the 22lr trainer for bolt guns a few years ago. It started with a 40X and it continued with a CZ455 VPT “for my son” and culminated with converting the 40X to a repeater. To be perfectly frank, if you want to keep some money and room in your gun safe, stop reading now.

I am a member of the “40X Mafia” and my ‘Don’ is Hoser. Colorado may have the largest concentration of 40X and conversions and Hoser has been hosting some 22lr comps down at PWSA. My son and I try to make them, but end up at as many 22lr Praire Dog Matches at CRCI as we can.

So what is so great about 22 trainers? They bring a smile to this fat boys face like refrigerator-Jello cake. They are just a hoot to shoot and cheap, once you get a gun. They also are pretty good trainers. I started looking at the relationship between the 22lr ballistics and centerfire cartridges, specifically 308.

What I started to see is that 22lr comes down to about 1/4 scale 308. I posted my findings over at The Hide.

https://forum.snipershide.com/threads/it-looks-like-subsonic-22lr-is-about-25-of-7-62x51-175gr-out-of-a-18inch-r700.6395085/

Other people have looked at it to, and come to similar conclusions:

https://finnaccuracy.com/blogs/fa-news/22lr-long-range-trainer-how-to-get-best-out-of-it

And there is an article about it with some cool graphs, data and discussion.

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2018/03/06/long-range-22lr-trainer-get-best/

It’s not perfect. There is a lot of temperature sensativity that isn’t explained by ballistic calculators and air temp. I’m looking to spend a couple of mornings parsing out the 200m performance and trying to nail down the air, ammo and gun temp influences.

But for drop and wind. They are great tools. If you have kids they are fun ways to get them into shooting. If you live in the Denver area, I highly suggest either the PWSA or the CRCI matches to shoot with the kids.

There are great gun options out there. It is tough to beat a CZ455 VPT, or build up from a standard 455. The 40X and Voodo actions are awesome to get into the same stocks as the centerfire guns. The Ruger 22 RPR looks promising. Ruger 10/22 are an addiction that luckily I have been able to avoid.

Welcome to the sickness.

2

Screw your controlled round feed 40x repeater conversion. Damn thing cost me a call to VGW for a Ravage, who co-incidentally called back today to say it shipped!

I’d like to re-pay that favor, finally got the Kidd 10/22 accurately doped 10 to 200yd so come shoot it. Learned that a semi-auto is about 35-60 FPS slower than a bolt gun with same barrel length. I really need to chrono more often.

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You going to bring the Voodo to the match on the 17th? Looks like we should be there.

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I have an Anchutz, but its the heavy barrel hunting gun vs a nice target shooter. Heavy barrel is relative in 22’s. I did buy the cheap Savage bolt gun with threaded barrel and rail and tactical bolt knob, its pretty nice too. I stopped just in time from going off into 40X world.

I enjoy shooting them, but I prefer my rem 700 5R in 223 for my trainer gun. Its all good.

I checked your post on the Hide, pretty cool stuff you did. I may have to test the 1/4 theory out for my stuff.

PB

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I have a Kidd Engineering 10/22 and a CZ 455 Tacticool. I love them both, and they are incredibly fun for the youngsters to shoot suppressed.

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I shoot at CRC but I don’t know much about the rimfire matches. I’ll have to check them out.

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Thanks. My theory on 22lr targets is that every shot should count. No “where did it go”. So I’m not a fan of off shapped (Praire dog) targets. a 1/4 scale IPSC is A LOT smaller than you’d think. It is 1/4 in each direction, so 1/16 the surface area. It is still pretty big, so I like the smaller center hole to refine shots. The target is really the the center hole, the face is for ‘misses’. Hoser mentioned about the face being able to twist to show R/L impacts, so I’m trying to incorporate them into the 2nd gen. I like the 1/4 scale IPSC because it re-enforces the visual of target approximating what you’d see through a centerfire scope.

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What is your opinion on the Tikka T1x? I know it’s speculation, but wondering how it will compare with the CZ455

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That’s the big question. Tikka trigger and being able to use T3 series stocks make it a winner all ready and Sako makes the barrels for both Sako and Tikka (not confirmed yet for the T1x from my research). I dont see how this can go wrong, especially in the low $400 range. I like my CZ455, but I would buy the T1x over it. Hell, I got a Vudoo and I’m still probably going to pick up a T1x. Need more .22 matches, it’s pushing the Center fire stuff off stage for me.

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I know this is an old thread but I found it when I was doing my research for my T1x. Thought I’d throw in my experience.

The rifle is amazing. For $469 I just don’t see how you can beat it. I’ve got an Anschutz 1712 I paid over $2K for and this Tikka keeps right up with it. Pretty much bone stock. I did add one of Tikka’s after market forearms and pistol grips but that’s it. I haven’t dropped it in a chassis, swapped the trigger or glass bedded it. The only thing I added was a suppressor. What I found in this case with this rifle is that it seems to have far fewer fliers than my unsuppressed Anschutz. Using Lapua Midas ammo, a solid one piece rest and a Bushnell 4500 8-32x40 scope it is boringly accurate. On a still day you can cover a 20 round group shot at 50 yards with your thumbnail. I turned the trigger down to it’s lightest setting and it breaks just under 2 lbs. It’s not a pretty gun but man does it shoot!

My friends laughed at me when I showed up at the club with it. It’s sure not as pretty as that 1712 ( I still love that rifle…on looks alone). But it shot just as well as the 40x, Anschutz 54 and Vudoo that day. I know how incredulous that sounds. Believe it or not. My advice is to buy one and then try calling me a liar. I’m telling you I’ve never been more surprised in my life. I know Tikka makes a good rifle but damn!

Stay Safe

Heavyweight

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I love shooting .22 as well, from my tricked out 10-22’s. But prefer a .223 trainer bolt gun too. A few reasons: (1) Limited LH .22 bolt gun options, I can’t get a Tikka T1x (yet–they exist but not in CONUS), can’t get a Ruger American, can’t get the new CZ options, Savage has some but meh, and I won’t spend the coin for a Vudoo, (2) For training with a bolt gun, I prefer a SLIGHTLY more realistic centerfire shooting experience–a little recoil, able to shoot out to real-world distances, (3) Want the round I train with to be ideally something useful for hunting up to medium size game, (4) It’s convenient since I already stock a lot of 5.56/.223 for my AR’s.

Yeah I know, the cost of the ammo. But .223 is more affordable than other centerfires, and with a bolt gun, I’m just not burning ammo that fast anyway.

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The T1x is definitely on my get list. Thanks for the confirmation that it is a good decision.

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Especially if you reload, the 223 I can understand being better than a 22lr trainer. 22lr struggles beyond 150 yards as the ammo starts to be a big determinate of accuracy. I don’t think that it is a big surprise that a centerfire round would emulate better another centerfire round. That the 22lr does as well as it does is kind of amazing.

Where I think it would be interesting is training on movers, where a lot of repetition would be a big virtue. Just getting the target size, speed and distance (ToF) in scale and being able to leverage that experience is the question I have. Hoser has movers at his . 22lr PRS match. That is humbling.

But as heavyweight has seen, a few hundred buck and some OK ammo will get you a whole lot of training for $500. Sure you can polish it and spend 10x that. But for training on 100yards . and in targets on position and just scope/reticle manipulation- that is hard to beat. Plus I just get the giggles shooting 22lr- especially accurate 22lr. Plus, with my 40X repeater in an AI chassis you get guys scratching their heads as to why it is so quiet…

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I have a CZ455 set up as a trainer. It’s in basically the same chassis as my match gun and is a great little training tool.

For practice I’ll usually set up steel targets at 100, 150, 175, and sometime 200 yds. Typically using 4" squares or circles at the closer ranges, and a little 33% IPSC hanging from chains at 200. Come up for the 200 yard target is about 6.5 mil.

Other than the lack of recoil (& noise), everything else that goes into shooting a stage is basically the same as with the big gun: building a solid position, breathing, trigger control, follow through, spotting hits/misses, transitioning targets, stage planning, etc. It’s been a really great training tool. My buddies and I can easily burn through a 100-200 rounds each in an hour or two of shooting practice stages with the 22s.

As far as ammo cost, I shoot SK Plus at around $6 for 50rds, or $.12/rd. That’s less than I pay per projectile for the 75gr handloads I shoot through the 223 training barrel I have for the match gun. Plus there’s still the cost of powder, primer, and my time sitting at the reloading bench.

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I “wanted” a Vudoo, but couldn’t see forking out that kind of money for the amount of shooting I currently do. My Anschutz Super Match 54 was really nice, as well as the CZ 452 and CZ455 Tacticool. Sold them all in my “downsizing” phase and used the funds for a Tikka T1X package and banked the remaining money.

Now have a T1X with the factory stock with upgrades to match my CTR configured 6.5CM rifle by adding a T3X buttpad, beavertail forend, and vertical grip. Added a DIP bolt handle, scope rail, and replaced the plastic thread protector with a metal one. I splurged on a GRS Berserk Stock with a major discount, but didn’t care for it after the test fitting so I got a refund and decided to keep it in the configuration of my CTR.

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Nice man. Those Tikka’s should be putting a good dent in the .22 market.

I know you wanted a Vudoo so here is a few pics of mine. The most fun you can have at the range. Shooting 350 yards and hitting small steel plates freaks everyone out.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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The T1X offers an exceptional bang for your buck. There are a few at the monthly match and they do just fine. I agree the Vudoo rifles are stupid money for a .22 but I couldn’t resist.

In the end, I would have spent the same amount with a tricked out T1X in a chassis plus the KIDD Supergrade (I was going to buy also) and PST Gen II for each. Buy once cry once, right? My Vudoo gets more use than the rest of my firearms combined.

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Nice man! I have struggled my whole life when I try and buy “good enough” it always cost me more money.

So know I just save longer and buy what I think I have to have at the time. The vudoo’s are fun.

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19

OK that is just awesome on steroids. If I got a .22 bolt gun, the Vudoo is the one I’ve wanted but couldn’t bring myself to spend custom centerfire bolt gun prices. But…awesome rifle.

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i just bought a stiller 2500xr and then chambered a benchmark 3 groove barrel for it… placed the barreled action in a manner t4 and this dam think shoots right with my benchrest stuff. amazingly accurate at 50 yards. one hole groups with lapua center x. crazy town accurate!!! lee