.22LR trainers?

AR/M4 AR Pistols & Pistol Caliber ARs
1

I’ve been contemplating buying a .22lr trainer of some kind. I have the funds available to either buy some more 5.56 or something to shoot the tons of 22 I have laying around. I have a small marlin 22 but sitting at the bench just isn’t really all that fun.

I can shoot a 22 anywhere and for less. I’d like to keep the feel of an AR mostly for fun but also as a refresher. I don’t want to go out and blow through $150 in ammo at a time With my ARs and shrinking supply of good 5.56

I haven’t been shooting a lot latley mostly because of cost of ammo, two kids, one a week old and a new Wrangler that sucks all the fun money out of me. The Jeep is something I cant help. There’s just always something I want that is never cheap.

I’m not sure if I should just get a M&P15-22 or is there something else out there Similarly priced? It’s been a while since I’ve really looked. All I know is I don’t want a drop in.
My only concern with the Smith and Wesson is that almost the whole thing is polymer. I’d like to swap optics from other rifles to it but I’m concerned how well plastic will hold up to the back and forth.

Any suggestions?
Thanks

2

My 22lr AR gets shot the most, is always the gun makes the range trip with me every time. If you have a 22lr suppressor (and if you don’t, then go get one) a 4" Barrel will keep bulk pack subsonic. I build a “solvent trap” form 1 suppressor or mine. I used a Taccom 4" barrel, but CMMG and ones Redtazdog makes is nice also.

4lb 9oz with optics and suppressor

3

Did you build the upper or was it something you bought?

That thing looks fun as hell

4

I bought a Colt .22 (made by Walther) and the build quality is nice. I have not shot it yet so I cannot vouch for it’s performance. I have watched videos of it on YT and it seems to shoot nice for everyone shooting it on video.

Spare mags are readily available at about $20+
It is made out just like the real deal EXCEPT a functioning bolt release.

http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/colt-m4-carbine-22lr-made-by-walther-5760300.html

This is the latest generation.
It has the 90deg safety, not the 180.
It feels like the real thing. Except the bolt release.

The picture on PSA site doesn’t look like the one I got.

Mine came with the 30 round mag (1) and the upper and lowers matched.
In fact, I think the finish was on par with a BCM I’ve bought, better than a Stag I bought and actually better than the S&W MP15 sport I bought a couple of weeks ago.

5

I’d have no problems with an M&P 15-22 . . . in fact, that’s exactly what I’ve got. I’m going to set it up similar to my main rifle, it’s just going to be done more economically. With the availability of things like the Primary Arms or Vortex red dots and some take off parts sitting in the parts box, I can get something almost identical to my main rifle for little to no extra cost outside of the red dot and rifle.

6

I did exactly what cougar_guy04 did, the M&P15-22 has been problem free and it’s set up like my BCM.

7

I had a .22 SBR upper from Model 1 that ran fine but I broke a hammer pin using it so I became a bit skeptical of continuing it’s use because at the time my SBR with BCM 11.5" upper was my duty carbine. Decided to go cheap and got a 15-22 and it’s been perfect (it did eventually get a DD rear sight and MOE grip too):

Companion to this one:

The 16" and 11.5" mates:

IMO the 15-22 is the way to go for the price of it and mags are pretty easy to find and reasonable at this time.

8

Why not a drop in? I use the CMMG BCG replacement drop in converter in my upper and it’s been pretty reliable for the couple thousand rounds I’ve put through it. (If 22 ammo was priced like it used to be and more available, the round count would be even higher.) The converter can be used in any of my 5.56 ARs and is especially fun with my shorty

Side note: Colt 22s are made by Umarex

9

Mistwolf - your post made me recall I started the whole .22 thing with a M261 conversion and I couldn’t hit ANYTHING with numerous uppers. At 25 yards I could’ve done better with buckshot. This was in my 1/7s and a couple of 1/9s I borrowed and it didn’t matter. YMMV of course.

I think it was F2S that extolled the virtues of the 15-22 due to all functions being the same as the big boys.

10

http://www.waltherarms.com/m4-ops/

According to Walther they manufacture it, Colt licenses it allowing use of their roll mark ( and hopefully their QC too ) and distributed by Umarex.

As I understand in regards to pistols, Walther has a good rep.
I honestly bought the rifle on a whim due to its price and thinking it would be a good rifle to get my kids started on.
I dont know any of the specs and have come across very little discussion on it.
The main complaint I saw was regarding the 180deg throw of the safety and non-functioning bolt release.
Also, it does not use a standard barrel nut due to, I think, the threads on the upper not being to spec.
So it will not readily accept an after market FF rail.

I just cant get into plastic guns. Not even in airsoft.

I thought there were fouling issues and groove/twist issues when using a conversion kit?

11

So do you guys feel like the M&P is actually a good trainer for a full size AR?
It seems like it would be good for sight aquisition, safety manipulation, and maintain your grip muscle memory.

I put my hands on one today and it’s nice and light as are the mags. Maybe a little to light on the mags to feel right on mag chages and target transitions though.

Has anyone made “sort of” trainer out of a ruger 10/22?
There’s a lot of nice looking stocks for them and could kind of do similar stuff with having more options for better barels and triggers.

12

I compete often in rimfire competitions (local range’s own version of “Steel Challenge”) and I sometimes work as a RO at the local state matched, so I see a lot of Rimfire pistols and rifles run through their paces. My opinion of the “Colt 22 AR” rifle is very low. Only one person at the range has one, and he has an affinity for Walther. Everyone else is running S&W M&P-15-22’s for AR equivalent rifles (or Ruger 10-22’s if they don’t care about AR equivalence).

On the S&W 15-22 everything is in the proper place and everything works exactly same as the 5.56 AR’s; AFAIK can’t get that on any other .22 rifle platform.

I tried a .22 conversion bolt for my AR and it makes no sense IMO. It fouls bad, accuracy bad, and more importantly to me the LSHO and bolt-release won’t work properly. You can buy fancier .22 conversion kits that more closely work like a “real AR” but By the time you pay all that, might as well just buy a M&P-15-22.

Has anyone made “sort of” trainer out of a ruger 10/22?
yeah seen several like this. it won’t look the same. It won’t work the same. It won’t have the same controls or trigger. and it will cost more than the M&P 15-22 or a dedicated .22lr upper.

A few years ago I ruined a 5.56 barrel using a .22 conversion bolt. Put a “ring” in the barrel (from a squib .22 then firing another .22 behind it). Before you jump all over me “should have assesed the failure” blah blah blah you should know that a squib round on a .22lr will happen sooner or later just due to the nature of Rimfire, when it does happen you do not hear anything it sounds just like a dud (which are common on Rimfire, so you get accustomed to racking them out and moving on). I was “on the clock” on a stage, I racked it out and keep competing that’s how it happened; didn’t know anything was wrong until I cleaned the gun later. If you are around .22lr rifles long enough you might see some that have “ringed” barrels and still seem to shoot fine (sometimes owners are not aware that it happened) and usually don’t hurt anything, but given this was a 5.56 I couldn’t take the chance with 5.56 being fired later.

My take on it, from all the Rimfire guns I see at these speed-steel competitions: do it right, not rigged-together with a conversion bolt. Go M&P-15-22 dedicated rifle, or dedicated 22lr Upper at the least.
13

Im genuinely curious what was the issue with the Colt .22?

14

+1 for M&P15-22.

I have about 1,500 rounds through mine. no malfunctions. it loves federal bulk pack.

15

I have probably at least 4k through mine and it’s been great.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

16

I placed this in the AR Pistol Caliber Forum a couple days ago. At the time I started this build I had 3 PSA complete lowers waiting for uppers, I wanted a CMP service rifle trainer for my daughters (and me), here you go:

Earlier this year I put together a dedicated 22 rifle for my daughters using the following parts:

CMMG 20 inch barrel with sight
CMMG Bravo Conversion
CMMG Barrel Collar
CMMG Anti-Jam Charging Handle
BCM Upper (blem)
A2 Handguards
PSA 6/3 Carry Handle (sale)
PSA Complete Lower (sale)
Blackdog 30 round mag x 2
Blackdog 10 round mag x 2

I have about 850.00 total in the rifle and magazines - which lock back on empty, but allow the bolt to go forward when you remove them.

The daughters both have Marlin 90 rifles with Tech-Sight aperture sights, I went with this build over purchasing a M&P 15-22 in order for them to have a dedicated CMP training rifle and something suitable for .22 3gun (they have M&P 22’s and GSG 1911-22’s plus a 20ga 870). We are doing a couple of Appleseeds this summer and I hope to finish with the KD Appleseed at Raton in October. Depending on how that goes I’ll build another .22 like this one.

My theory on raising daughters is keep them busy doing things that intimidate most boys, they are 15 and 16 so I still have a couple years to go before my theory is a proven success, but so far so good. Anyways I’ve drifted.

I had some initial problems with FTE’s. I had degreased everything, treated the bore with Kroil, cleaned, then lubed the conversion. I left the chamber dry as I could. After the FTE’s I polished/scrubbed the chamber with a .22 brush, cleaned and tried again. Nope. At this point I felt it was the extractor, even though it looked fine the spring seemed weak. I called CMMG and talked with tech support. They suggested that I ‘buzz’ the chamber a little more aggressively than I had. I purchased a pack of 3 Bore-Tech 6mm brushes at the LGS, chucked one into the drill (electic for some RPM) dunked it into some Brush Research honing oil and went to town for about 45 seconds. Cleaned it up and went back to the range.

As I reported in an earlier post - it worked fine. I sighted it in and then, dang I just was having so much fun I went through most of a brick of Federal Auto Match. I am hoping that the groups tighten up as I/they get some more rounds through it - it isn’t shooting as good as their Marlin 60’s.

I think, that depending on what you want the .22 AR for, this is an easy, fun way to get a good CMP training rifle. You can get an M&P 15-22 for about 1/2 - 2/3 what I have in this, but it doesn’t fit my specific needs/desires as well. Plus, you have a lower you can use with another upper.

Just thought this might be useful.

17

In the past, the Colt AR rimfire (and other similar rimfires offered by Walther) were designed and made by the Umarex side of the house in the Umarex factory, not Walther. But I just found out there has been a bit of re-shuffling and maybe all that’s changed. In 2012 the PW Group, owners of CARL WALTHER Sportwaffen and UMAREX Sportwaffen, announced the formation of Walther Arms, Inc. for the US market. It looks like there is also a UMAREX USA. Been doing a bit of research on the subject but haven’t turned up anything definitive. Shows you what I know

I thought there were fouling issues and groove/twist issues when using a conversion kit?

After shooting nearly 2k rounds through the converter, lead fouling finally reared it’s ugly head. Groups went from clay pigeon sized at roughly 100 yards to barn door sized at 25 yards- no exaggeration. I scraped away the lead fouling and groups shrank back to normal. The converter works fine from the 10.5 inch and 16 inch barrels I’ve tried them in- both with a 1:8 twist. Only fired a few rounds from a 20 inch barrel but I did not check for consistency of groups

18

Yea you guys are right. The M&P is the way to go. Cheaper than a built up Ruger and will serve my purposes.
I also saw that you can get conversion kits to swap the rail and add some weight to it. I may set it up identical to my favorite rifle.

Whats the accuracy people are getting out of these?

19

I recently got the tapco stock for my 10/22 for this purpose (tapco is junk i know). I wanted something to make use of what i had and not break the bank.

It is good for repeating grip angle, length of pull, and bench setup of an AR.

The grip style is not something i prefer, the trigger is way too close to the grip compared to an AR, the fore end does not extend as long as I’d prefer.

The stock basically does what I wanted it to, but there may be better options.

20

I started with an M261 kit. Like others have said, don’t waste your time and money.

I then bought a Tacsol .22 dedicated upper that I still have. It is the most reliable .22 semi auto of any kid that I have owned and will run on just about any standard or high velocity ammunition. I ended up putting it on a dedicated lower due to the increased fouling from .22 and using a “Catch 22” last round bolt hold open.

It will not function properly with Geissle, Knights, or other high end two stage trigger groups.