62gr fusion is my first line serious ammo.
Its accurate and terminal performance in tests is great… also has a good rep with hunters.
First round :
- headshots @ 300yds
- czone @ 500yds
- with 11.5"
Can you hit a head on demand at 500yds with your setup?
How often do you practice that or a more demanding scenario?
How often do you practice to less demanding standards?
It is not quite as barrier blind as Fusion. Its high quality ammo, though. I wouldn’t hesitate to load some up. It kills the shit out of mammals, and flies straight. It does go through barriers intact, which I feel is more important than terminal expansion if I have to choose.
Re Fusion vs TMK, Vicious CB said what I was going to.
Fusion MSR is in my rifle right now.
As others have said, I also prefer the Fusion as my preferred defense/hunting round. I live in the foothills of Appalachia, so most shots are going to be limited to 300 yards or less due to trees and hills. I do have some 77 gr Razorcore, but haven’t zeroed anything for them. The fusions are also usually cheaper, which does play a role in the decision, albeit a small one.
I’ve trending towards everything you posted. I’m moving from 11.5 to a 14.5 Home D gun and would like to enjoy the reliability of .223 pressure ammo again. (the longer barrel will make up velocity)
My only concern is POI shift. I just have to test/confirm, then dedicate a carbine to a 62gr zero if needed.
Pardon my perspective, but what’s the fascination and hard-on for barrier-blind bullets?
How often do you practice shooting through walls, glass, large kitchen appliances, furniture, landscaping, and cars? A lot of folks will never practice shooting past 200 yards, ever – so why match bullets?
If you think it’s a big enough / likely / dangerous threat, why not go with a 6.5 or 308?
Seriously – not meaning to rustle jimmies, but – why?
For me, just once. That was enough to see how poorly non-bonded bullets do through glass. Shooting through home or auto glass is enough of a possibility for a city dweller to have the better bullet.
A lot of folks will never practice shooting past 200 yards, ever – so why match bullets?
If you mean the TMK referred to in the title, it fragments gloriously. It’s a long range bullet, but happens to be a good CQB projectile in my opinion.
If you think it’s a big enough / likely / dangerous threat, why not go with a 6.5 or 308?
Some crazies just might to that. But to me, the AR-10 family in both calibers is too heavy and too unreliable for defensive stuff. You want a few hundred yards of distance between yourself and the enemy to allow for malf clearing.
Because I am heavily invested in 5.56/.223, both weapon-wise as well as ammo. I like to think of things in a “worse case scenario”. If it’s gonna likely be 5.56/.223 that I’m shooting, what gives the best combination of terminal performance AND barrier penetration. It’s not always gonna be home defense; maybe if we have a repeat of the “Summer of Love” I may need to rely on more than a Glock in my vehicle should miscreants block roads (I work in a city, live in the sticks) and I have to hoof it. Again, worse case type of thinking. I’d rather not need that performance but still have it, as opposed to needing it and not having it.
As far as .308 goes, I only have two, both M-14 clones, so I’m not seeing myself packing those long-azz biotches in a vehicle. Maybe a nice addition for a bug-out SHTF scenario, but not really a “throw it in the truck” weapon.
Like some of our other esteemed BTDT members, what’s your opinion?
For me, it covers all the bases well, jack of all trades. The fusion specifically is accurate enough for any realistic scenario, performs well through anything 556 can defeat and offers good terminal performance. It covers more bases than anything else in a lightweight gun.
Upping the cartrige requires tradeoffs I dont want, fusions tradeoff is money, which isnt an issue for me.
Backup is match grade handloads, I practice to 700 regularly.
Its really not that expensive, relatively. Fusion might be the least expensive not-ball ammo available commercially from a credible and reputable manufacturer.
Of course, ball is cheaper, should one choose that route.
We do it as part of a five-day (LE) Patrol Rifle class… been doing them twice a season for over twenty years, our instructor who does it went to Federal for the training on how-to, many years ago.
This year, we skipped it for the first 5-day… not sure about the next one. I hope we don’t drop it from the program.
In my experience the POI shift is very minimal but like you said you still have to check and confirm.
It’s actually a good question, with a simple answer IMHO:
If your attacker has ANY tactics at all, they will air-mail you a few rounds and then move to cover/concealment. This utilization of cover/concealment could even be while they are still advancing toward you.
With this in play, and me not having a 2am mental map of the studs in my walls, I want a barrier blind round that will not deviate significantly from its intended trajectory while it may be forced to traverse an intermediate media. Two pieces of drywall should be fine for most ammo, but throw even a glancing strike on a timber or metal stud and the game instantly changes.
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That’s probably the best, honest explanantion I’ve ever had anyone offer.
I’m not against shooting through walls and doors (despite not seeing my target or what’s behind it) in a combat role – which usually starts a “Lack of positive ID / collateral damage” purse-swinging immediate argument drill.
Man, you’re not kidding. Studs and drywall can act strangely, and there are often 2 studs at the edge of a doorway. What’s odd is that I’ve tested shooting through 2x4s and even 4 wide, 5.56 blows through them like paper, but in real life, bullets absolutely sometimes deviate at that edge of a door. Tactically, that can be used similarly to “stacking pillars” on a car, and one can luck out. Its one of the reasons I’m so into Fusion and Gold Dot.
Yeah, imagine in a force-on-force scenario…you start sending little blue sim-pills toward your opponent in a given scenario; they shoot back, move, or both. If they move, it’s likely to take advantage of cover/concealment if its near. Which, in a residential structure, is going to be a doorframe, alcove, etc. I.e. some type of corner-reinforcement like a stud, framing, or dooorjamb.
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Yep, and just like with auto glass, angle of incidence plays a HUGE role here. The projectile can be induced to tumble end-over, or can still be spin stabilized enough to tear through, front first. No way to really know. Having to worry about the entire projectile vaporizing within said barrier is an entirely additional set of concerns that barrier blind users don’t have to worry about as much.
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I think if you were going to “hedge your bets” to cover most scenarios then a good barrier-blind round would be where to place your money. No one bullet is perfect, but sometimes with a little compromise in both the expansion as well as penetration categories you can come up with one that does both quite well.
LE have a more obvious need for windshield penetration, but bullets that do well against windshields also perform well in heavy bone tests.
LE also drives the majority of terminal ballistics testing, so if I want to use something well tested it’s probably barrier blind.
I think you may be equating barrier blind too much with armor piercing. It’s more about consistent performance, even if something gets in the way.
Expanding bullets generally expand more consistently than fragmenting bullets fragment. Especially at the lower end of the size that can fragment and still meet penetration requirements, like 5.56 sized.
If over penetration is a concern then a non barrier blind design may be what you want.