Something I didn’t expect to say in my life time, .22 mag may be a viable SD choice for deep concealment, back up, pocket carry. etc. Ammo manufacturers have made several now that get 1100+ FPS from 2" revolvers with 40-45g bullet, that meets minimum FBI requirements for penetration and expansion. Look at the 22 mag Federal Punch for example, seems the best of the current offerings. Bullet design and performance continues to evolve and improve. Being RF and all, I’d personally only trust a revolver for it, but several exist.
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I believe it, a .22 Magnum is plenty capable, if it’s in an 8 shot revolver even better.
It’s just that most .22 Magunm Auto’s kinda suckl.
I’ve known several people who carry NAA mini revolvers in .22 Magnum and/or LR. About the only option for gym shorts with pockets.
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To my surprise, they make gold dots in 22 WMR. Bullet construction in WMR is much different than 22 LR. I still would stick to payload delivery. Even a G22 can go AIWB for deep concealment.
I thought this was common knowledge, I have taken a 198 lbs buck with a 22 mag. The wound channel was pretty gnarly. I would not hesitate to use a reliable 22 mag for back up.
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Interesting, but 5.7 outperforms a 22mag in every way but cost and will feed reliably in an auto. If going that route, you can get 20 rounds of 5.7 in a PR-5.7 in a relatively compact format. Not deep pocket, but smaller and slimmer than a G19.
Common knowledge it’s a decent hunting rnd from a long barrel with good shot placement, yes. As modern JHP designed to meet minimum FBI criteria from a 2" snub? No, not common knowledge I believe.
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Truly apples 2 oranges kinda of situation for me. 5.7 pistols are similar sizes to a 9mm duty pistol, so for me, no use and no interest. 5.7 is a superior rnd “on paper”, but it appears manufactures have focused on getting respectable terminal ballistics from 22 mag from very compact carry options. Lots of 5.7 tests, none impressed me, none would have me consider 5.7, all confirm my low opinion of 5.7 for any practical used I’d need. Your mileage may differ.
I don’t currently own a 5.7 and I agree, “on paper” is just on “paper”, but so are “tests”.
What really interests me about the round is the Ft. Hood shooting. 11 were shot center mass. All 11 people who were shot center mass died. 3 of the 13 that died tried to charge the shooter at close range and were stopped with a center mass shot. The 32 that were injured and survived were not hit center mass and hit in extremities like arms, legs, or hips, and shoulders.
A female civilian police officer was disabled with shrapnel to the wrist and a 2nd bullet that broke her femur.
It took 5 hits of 9mm to stop Hasan and he survived.
Like any pistol round shot placement is key, but this situation was not “on paper” or a “test” and it is a real example of what that round is capable of.
“What really interests me about the round is the Ft. Hood shooting. 11 were shot center mass. All 11 people who were shot center mass died. 3 of the 13 that died tried to charge the shooter at close range and were stopped with a center mass shot. The 32 that were injured and survived were not hit center mass and hit in extremities like arms, legs, or hips, and shoulders.”
Ft Hood discussed at 10m along with real world experiences from LE, who used it, and dropped it quickly after it performed poorly. I spoke to someone who said the same, it sucked for putting goblins down and they dropped it from their tac team. Regardless, it’s not apples apples to my OP. It is apples apples for those who would consider a 5.7 pistol over a 9mm pistol of similar size. That’s a different issue and debate.
There is no 5.7 offering as small as the various snubs in .22 mag I’m aware of. The ultra small offerings in 22l, .25, and even .380, usually offer sub par ballistics, but the recent offerings in .22 Mag may have finally broken the code there, making them at least viable option in the ultra compact catagory.
Additional thoughts, here’s apples 2 apples, 5.7 pistol vs 9mm pistols of similar sizes. He’s a fan. Some his reasoning is worth consideration at least, big increase in capacity, big decrease in recoil, and so forth. I will not be changing from 9mm to 5.7 for SD/HD any time soon, but I will keep an open mind and interest to further developments in ammo etc in that area.
Interesting. Always the skeptic though, the video mentions multiple rounds needed to incapacitate. Who made this actual claim? I am sure it isn’t Pat, because he wasn’t the one out there shooting perps. He was training people. So, were those required multi hits due to shot placement? I would like to see the actual data. We see bad shooting LEO’s all the time. We are also, from the get go talking pistols though, not carbines. We see the 9mm requiring mag dumps all the time and nobody bats an eye because a pistol round is still just a pistol round. I don’t think anyone sane is comparing the 5.7 as a rifle round. I agree though, a super compact revolver sized 5.7 would be cool.
Lots of discussion on all that here:
Tested by the pros, feedback by various real world users, etc was not a win for 5.7. As it’s been some years, may be worth re visiting the topic, in terms of comparing to similar sized 9mm pistols, with modern ammo development and such, just as recent .22 Mag ammo seems to have changed the equation on super compact options.
Ammo manufactures have been producing rimfire ammo for the personal defense carry market for a few years. I think Federal came out with .22 Punch in 2021-22.
IMO, rimfire for self defense isn’t a solid substitute for standard centerfire calibers but it does offer folks options. In my wife’s case… as the years passed she developed recoil sensitivity, and her strength to operate the slide on an autoloader was becoming less than ideal. So… a SW 43C allowed her to continue practicing (heavy trigger though) with a carry gun. As a bonus the aluminum frame and cylinder makes it crazy light for her to carry. She’s satisfied which is a win.
Federal offers .22LR Punch (29grain flat point) advertised at 1070fps from a 2in barrel with acceptable penetration. 8 rounds…
It looks like a round designed for penetration of soft BA wasn’t expanding in soft tissue against non BA targets. Surpise surprise. Wrong ammo for the wrong purpose. Barnes needs to make a self defense TAC-XPD copper round like they do with the 9mm and I will bet that would change things. If it did for the 9mm, it would do it for the 5.7.
On a side note, the funny thing is that the Ft. Hood shooter can’t buy those special LEO rounds and had to get what they sell to civilians and it was way more successful at doings it’s job.
My Mother had the same problem and gave up the N Frame Smith in her Purse with eventually a Glock 26. I showed her how to manipulate the slide with her body weight and She’s back in the game.
Recoil sensitivity, no, but her arm strength just wasn’t what it used to be. I told her I could take her up to the Dairy and She could build her arms back up by milking Cows all day and she flipped me off.
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So, ammo manufacturers are getting much improved ballistics performance as it applies to SD from .22 Mag, are gun manufacturers now getting reliability from their pistols too? I didn’t know Walther even offered such a pistol. Interesting developments in the gun world happening.
I have no experience with the walther, but I been researching it. As it would be a great hunting side arm. I guess they are very reliable. I don’t see an issue using it as a self defense pistol.
Vids I have watched suggests they can be picky as to ammo, and or with optics (due to changing the mass of the slide I assume) but with the right ammo, GTG. Essentially no recoil.