I just had a bad night with my Valor at an IDPA practice night, a couple FTFs, which is very uncommon for this piece so I checked the log, saw I only had 1600 rounds on the current 18.5lb Wolff recoil spring, but not being happy I decided to take a look at a new one I had, the one in the gun had taken a set back over an inch compared to a new one , the difference once installed was night and day.
That being said, I am not happy with the short life, looking at Wilson and ISMI. What do M4C members run? I will me shooting mostly ball and 185 JHP.
Standard rate Wolff 16lb spring. Replace every 2K, NEVER been a problem for me.
Make sure your mag springs are fresh too, a weak recoil spring will show a weak mag spring…
A 1911 will run fine with a 14lb recoil on hardball, IF the mag spring can keep up, and hang on to the last round. But you need a dimpled follower to do that. What kind of mags are you using??
Wilson uses 17lb Wolff springs. Those variable springs and the flatwire (Glock spring) are a problem looking for a solution.
Mags are all Tripp, I checked their springs next to new ones, no visible difference. The particular mags at the time have only been used for around 10 range sessions.
18.5lbs is too much.45ACP ball will run efficiently with 14-16lbs recoil spring.
The main job of the “recoil” spring is to return the slide to battery.
Either Colt or Wolff depending on the spring is what I use.
My biggest thing and the reason for the thread is I am not happy with the fact my springs compressed over an inch in 1600 rounds, interested in ISMI feedback or other(Wilson flat?)
JMB originally had a 14lbs recoil spring on the 1911,Colt later on upped it a bit to about 16lbs.Then along came a watch maker turned gunsmith and started selling things like 18.5lbs recoil springs,shok-buffs,full length guide rods.
The 18.5 lbs “recoil” spring does not not provide any more protection from frame battering than 14-16lbs springs.The heavier spring can push the slide forward too fast inducing problems instead of “curing” any.The weight of the slide does most of the work slowing thing down,simple physics.The more you try and outsmart that old Mormon the more problems you will have with the 1911 platform.
Colt 5" 45 recoil springs have NEVER been 16lbs, still aren’t. They’re closer to 14.
Variable rate springs were designed for compensated guns that needed to unlock quickly but still have enough oomph to get a round out of a magazine. I have NO idea why anyone would use one in a regular 45, even though the USMC did, and they were popular for some dumb reason with everyone for awhile.
ISMI springs are usually lighter than advertised, but good springs. The Wilson flatwire is pointless and a waste of money.
Colt standard weight springs are 22lb main, somewhere around 14+ recoil, 9 1/2lb mag spring. If you’re gonna shoot standard power or even ligh loaded ammo, those weights are perfect.
The longer I shoot, the more I come to appreciate the original specs and how well they work when fed good ammo.
It just gave me two FTFs mid mag, not much else to say. The pistol is going on 6k, this was odd because it very rarely chokes on me. The fact that the recoil spring has set over an 1" in under 2k was the reason for this thread. I do find it mildly entertaining those who worship the original design, like the immense amount of time and experience people have put to the design after JMB couldn’t have yielded improvements. The 1911, like the AR and many other platforms is lucky to have so many users and benefit from improvements.
All of my loads are near max, or max recommended loadings, all of my 1911s run 18.5lb recoil springs, never has it done me wrong and there are several smiths whom I value who ship their pistols with them.
Current Dan Wesson’s use an ISMI 18# recoil spring, and an 18# mainspring. Earlier Valors used an 18.5# Wolff recoil spring.
That said, I have a recent Specialist, and I run a 23# mainspring along with a 14# recoil spring for factory hardball and my 200gr LSWC reloads. I like how the 23# mainspring absorbs recoil energy, and I like how a lighter recoil spring stops the front sight from dipping down when returning to battery
When I have feed issues with any gun, the first thing I look at is the ammo
Normally feedway problems are reflective of something robbing energy from the cycle as the slide moves forward. If your gun develops a FTF problem after extended running trouble free, like the OP’s, likely something has changed (barring a defective recoil spring) that is absorbing energy.
I own a Valor, and can tell you that my example had a few problems that, if not corrected, could result in FTF problems developing with use.
Mine had a barrel bump. This is commonly felt as that “hitch” in the cycle about 3/16-1/8" before the gun goes into battery. Les Baer guns are famous for this. Still barrel bump is not likely since you’ve run 6K trouble free and barrel bump usually wears itself away. If you do have it, is easily fixed with a file.
Mine also had a recoil spring guide that had not been relieved to clear the barrel lugs. This can impact the lugs enough to peen metal into the slot where the barrel link runs. When this hangs up it robs energy and fouls up the feed cycle. This problem is consistent with a 6K round gun. See this thread for a picture of what this looks like. Easily fixed.
My chamber was on the tight side of spec. Combine a tight chamber with 6K rounds of shooting and you may just need to really clean up your chamber. I reamed mine. However, if yours has run great until now, reaming is likely unnecessary. But I’d give that chamber a full “Mr Clean” treatment. Before cleaning you might want to try a plunk test with some of your ammo (and the two rounds that FTF’d) in the barrel and see if they all go in easily.
The Valor is a very nice gun, but like many 1911’s, often they need a few things addressed.
Couple of other thoughts - I have seen lots of Wolff springs take such a set (maybe up to 1" - I never measured it) and on a well set up gun its not a problem. Also, I have assumed that your stoppage happened with the round in the chamber but hung up somehow. May not be true. So on your FTF’s, were the rounds part way in or did the stoppage occur on the feed ramp? Was the cartridge rim under the extractor when the stoppage happened?
If your gun is running great with a new spring, rock on. But one of the above things may be a contributing factor.
This pistol sports a barsto and has had the relief on the guide rod. The rounds were almost complely chambered, a smack to the rear of slide chambered the round.
Test fired today and it ran perfect with the rest of that batch. I guess I will just replace Wolff more frequently from here on.
And Samuse, this 1911 has a much better track record than my Glock 17
I don’t doubt it. My 1911s run better than most Glocks too, but this is M4C.
That last little bit into battery is right where a variable spring is at it’s weakest.
From years of diagnosing that same exact stoppage… 99% of the time bad reload.
Damn near every 1911 I see has a way too hard recoil spring, too soft mainspring, too long hammer strut, JACKED UP sear spring, too tight extractor, too long ejector, and weak mag springs. But a mirror polished feedramp that’s too steep. And that’s why I’ve gravitated back to Colts.
Most recoil springs need to be changed every 1-3k, platform & ammo dependant.
Considerations: Slide Mass, ammunition Power Factor/pressure, spring weight +/- from std. OE, Recoil/operational parts configuration, etc. Basically, “personal preference” in setup will determine life of certain components.
I will never compare a polymer platform with a steel gun , really apples to oranges for me. They absorb/take recoil differently when fired and this may also contributes to this/that for parts changed during PM. On my light sprung Glocks, slide going into battery will tell you visually of it’s at the end of its service life, or safe operation. Of course striker spring weight plays a part in this as well. 1911, I use the usual signs to tell me to swap, but it’s mainly visual for me: when I clean if the spring is short it gets tossed.
Springs are cheap, even if you changed them out every 1K for Major PF & 2-3k for Minor PF. Not worth the headache for me & I chalk it up as routine PM.
Glock: ISMI flat recoil
1911: Wolff, Sprinco
+1 with what you said, I run my 1911 handguns the same as anything else. Setup/mags/ammo are right, makes no difference. I run everything Wet
FWIW… in a 45ACP Government Model I use and recommend 18.5# recoil springs and 23# main springs. A properly set-up Government Model shooting standard 230gr FMJ @ 850FPS will run on both a heavier and/or lighter springs as well as the standard weight 16# recoil spring. The biggest advantage I have found to an 18.5# recoil spring is that it has a longer service life.
Flat-wire recoil springs can present many advantages in smaller pistols but, other than a longer service life, I have not noticed any significant advantage in a 45ACP Government Model shooting the aforementioned 230gr loads. Basically put, my already working Government Model didn’t work any better because I changed to a flat wire spring. But again, that is not to diminish their significant advantage in shorter guns as well as 1911s in other calibers.
All that being said, springs will take a ‘set’ just by being compressed/installed in a gun and 1600 rounds on an 18.5# recoil spring doesn’t typically rate as worn out yet… but stranger things have happened. In a 45ACP Government Model there is no “magic” spring… or at least none that I have found… the design is forgiving enough of spring rates and in the vast majority of instances the gun either works with a (insert your favorite spring rate here) or it doesn’t.
Do you find the flat springs to have longer service lives? I changed mine out in my Wilson a long time ago and I believe I have runs bout 5k since without bothering to replace. Do you think it is time or should I just keep on trucking’?
They certainly seem to have a longer service life… that’s the main benefit to running one in a 45ACP Government Model.
If I was running one I would probably change once a year, at 10K rounds, or when the slide was no longer being driven forward efficiently/effectively, or whichever came first.
