1911 comparison thread?

The most honest assessment I can offer is that it’s more about the person than the gun. Someone who understands how to make a 1911 work is going to be fine… he’s probably got good parts that are properly fitted in a quality gun. Someone who bought a 1911 simply because The Internet told him to is likely going to have all sorts of problems.

If I were going to buy a 1911 for myself, I honestly don’t know where I’d start. Actually, I do. I’d call Larry Vickers and buy whatever he told me to. :cool:

Yes, Larry has a very short list of recommendations.

I own two 1911’s that have no internal modifications. A SW1911PD and an early Sig Arms GSR. I’m confident in them both, but I have been considering the practicality of a Glock lately. The reputation, parts availability, and simplicity of operation are pretty attractive.
That being said, however, the 1911 is a battle-proven firearm, there are many replacement parts for it, and it isn’t difficult to operate. My SW has given me no problems since about 500rds. It has well over 1,000 now. The Sig is 500rds into its break-in and I’ve had zero problems with it.

Are these recommendations available for my viewing pleasure?

I will echo others in their recommendations of the information to be obtained at 10-8 performance and 10-8 forums.com. Hilton Yam and the people who post there make their recommendations on daily use. Few guns get abused and mistreated like an open carry duty gun. I have owned 1911’s of all types now and I will give my experience.

Kimber: I owned two, and neither of them ever proved reliable. I know some work for alot of poeple, my two examples did not. Both of these were commander (or Kimbers verison of) length guns.

Les Baer: I owned a full size 5" Thunder Ranch for a long time and it was a great gun. It never malfunctioned and ran like a top. I regretfully sold it off to fund another project and I wish I had not (do in no part to the fact that it was serial number TRS0098!).

Wilson Combat: I owned a CQB compact which was nothing but trouble from the word go. It would not even reliably feed factory manufactured 230 grain hardball. It went shortly after I purchased it and began testing it for carry use.

Springfield Custom: My current 1911 is a custom carry built from the ground up by the Springfield Custom Shop. It is a full size, steel framed gun and is the finest 1911 I have ever had my hands on (those of you who are familiar with Springfield Custom can relate to their quality). Has never malfunctioned, is a tack driver and also looks good to boot.

MARS Armament Colt Axiom: This is currently being built as I type this so I don’t know yet. Given Steve Morrisons reputation, and my conversations with him, plus his work on one of my M4 uppers I have no doubt it will be the equal or better than my Springfield Custom. This is also a full size steel frame 1911.

In short, the only 1911’s I have had problems with are non full size guns. Not to say that the smaller formats can’t be made to run right, it’s just a crap shoot sometiemes. This feeling is echoed by 10-8 performance. You just have to realize that there are few bargains to be had in the 1911 world. Hilton’s web site explains it best by saying “you can buy two to four of the current duty handguns for what you would spend on one good to go 1911.”

He gave the thumbs up on Wilson, NH, Ed Brown, Les Baer and Springfield Custom. Only 5" barrels are recommended and if you had any 1911s with shorter barrels running reliably go buy yourself a lotto ticket :D.

My Kimber Warrior was nothing but trouble. I ditched it after 3 trips to two different gunsmiths.

While some people have had very good examples, other people have had far less success.

10-8 no longer recommends the Warrior, as this thread linked indicates: http://www.10-8forums.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=custom1911&Number=56972&Searchpage=6&Main=56857&Words=&topic=&Search=true#Post56972

So, it seems a lot of people have had various problems with a variety of different 1911’s regardless of make and model. The reoccurring theme seems to be: 5" model and stay away from Kimber. All others, Les Baer, DW, Colt, S&W, SA, Wilson, etc…we’re pretty much rolling the dice?? I’ve been browsing the other fourms as I"ve been suggested, and I’ve heard less complaints about S&W than any other model. Colt S70 seems to also get good reviews. I don’t have $2000 or more:( to really play with. I’m still working on a AR build. I think I’m going to go with the S&W or possibly Colt gold cup match S70. It seems like the “safest” bet in a platform of unknown reliability. Although I’ll keep my eye on the EE…unfortunately, this will be a layaway item for probably a month…did I mention I’m purchasing an M&P 45 as well? Ahhhh, no children or wifey…it could be worse!:smiley: Thanks for all the help everyone! Oh, one last question, anyone play around with DW’s 10mm 1911??

I really think you are on to something. I own Springfields, Kimbers, even an el-cheapo Rock Island G.I. model. All have been great guns, but all are full size models with good mags.

There is some true wisdom in this post. I have seen every brand have some issues and every brand hit home runs. If anything, the operator’s understanding of the platform seems to be the deciding factor.

and yet he pulled his name from the signature model. i have a Vickers built colt. and it’s perfect - shoots straighter than a laser, and runs and runs. since i’m allergic to cleaning, this is a plus:D

I am just of the opinion that the full size 5" gun was the way it was initially designed. Unlike Glock, S&W M&P, Sig, H&K, etc the format does not adapt as well to the “cut down” formats. That being said, most of the higher end 1911 manuacturers can make a commander size gun run correctly. By higher end I mean semi custom like Wilson, Baer, Springfield Custom and not production guns like Kimber and even some of the Springfield Aromory production guns. This includes Kimbers “Custom Shop” which is a total misrepresentation of the phrase as they actually do not have a true custom shop. Also almost any commander done by a knowledgeable custom smith will most likely run correctly.

i still have a 1st gen kimber, from their custom shop. it was a good gun, but after 10+ years and alot of rounds, it needed a freshening up. after a trip to the gunsmith and alot of $$ later, it runs like a raped ape. it used to run mike a mildly molested one

stay away from the cold cups. i sold all of mine. they don’t shoot any straighter, or run any more reliably than a GI colt. and they have fragile sights. and the serrations and sight cuts, make modification very difficult.

on a tangent to this. i bought a matched pair of Baer commanders, in consecutive serial numbers. my little brother took one, and i took the other. both of our were not very reliable, even after 1000 rounds and replacement springs, etc.

a very knowledgeable friend of mine said that consecutive serial number Baer commanders are odd (at first i was happy about this, as maybe they were rare).
he mentioned that normally the consecutive serial numbers were used for commander/government sets. after some close inspection, it seems that this was the case for our guns. a government frame was cut down to the commander length, but internally, wasn’t recut to commander size.

just my sample of one, for your reference

Here is a chart that I am working on: Fighting 1911 Chart
All of the information that is on the chart is based on what I have read on the builder’s website or from people that own the guns and understand how they are built. It is a work in progress and if you would like to add anything or see a need for correction then please let me know.

The problem with a 1911 chart is that it most 1911 manufacturers are mostly based on reputation. They can use good parts but if they turn out a lemon every other gun then they are not really a good builder.

For a fighting 1911 I would recommend a Les Baer Thunder Ranch Special or Dan Wesson Valor. You can find either one for around $1500.

The Springfield Loaded models are a good entry level 1911. They have a decent reputation and if you have any issues, Springfield has excellent customer service.

My .02…

I have to preface this by saying that I love the 1911 as a platform in that it is a blank canvas that can be transformed into anything from a true BBQ (Beauty) gun, fully engraved to a tacti-gay mall ninja special (Any manufacturers response pistol comes to mind)…

I own a 1911 built by Nighthawk… mine has gone bang every time I pull the trigger but I have developed unusual wear in places that shouldn’t be wearing…Nighthawk has recently had some QC issues… they have offered to fix it for free but as long as it does not affect the functioning of the gun, I really don’t care, that being said, the gun should never have left NH that way, especially for 2800.00… I would expect a Glock to leave the factory like that… If the OP is seriously considering a 1911, I would do a lot of research and I would consider saving your pennies and purchasing a full custom from a reputable custom shop like any of the Louder Than Words crew… I am scrimping and saving for a full house custom from Jason Burton at Heirloom Precision…

Rob can attest to the next point… 1911s are an incredibly expensive hobby… semi customs are outrageously pricey… I have been looking at a Wilson and they start around 2700.00, Nighthawks do not fare any better with their cheapest model at around 2350.00… not to mention the mags, extra grips, ammo for .45, custom holster leather… and that’s only if you want to do some plinking at the range and CCW… if you want to compete with a 1911… that is a whole other beast…

Like I said at the beginning, I love the 1911 and I will fork out the money for the hobby but I would caution the OP to do a lot of research before dropping any money on a 1911… I do like the others suggestions of the 10-8 forum or asking Larry Vickers what he would carry…

An entry-level Wilson or Nighthawk (CQB or GRP, respectively), should be about $2200 retail, maybe a hair less.

I think that was a cost issue - Nighthawk pushed the MSRP of the 10-8 and Vickers models north of $3k, when they started out ~$2500.

Yup, what Vickers told me to, or Yam told me to, or other authorities on the 1911 who have forgotten more about 1911s then most will ever know. :cool:

IIRC there was a thread on another site a year+ ago that indicated that Kimber now machines their frames from billet and no longer uses forgings. I have no personal knowledge of this, but I trust the person that posted it.

With the sunset of the ban on high-capacity magazines for many parts of the US, with the increase in cost of ammo, and with the availability of viable alternatives, the 1911 is becoming more and more the weapon of choice for nostalgics (myself included) and less and less the choice for those folks who train/shoot as much as those of a warrior mindset should.

A functional 1911 does not have to cost $2K, but on the other hand it is much easier to sink the price of 3x-4x the cost of a 9mm Glock or M&P in caliber of your choice into a 1911. Enter at your own risk.